Welding for Newbies - or, in this case, for me ... :)

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toakreon
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Post by toakreon » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:03 pm

Thanks Loco ... well werth (*EDITED* or even "worth") a thought ... :)

John

kd2
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Post by kd2 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:57 pm

Im welding 1 mm sheet with an ac arc welder.
Its much harder than mig or any other type of welder, but it works.
For a total newbie???...I dont think so.
You have to be quite skilled to do so.
Im building exhaust system for 2/4 strokes engines that way.
The advantage of this welder is that you can use different materials with just a small change of a stick.
The welding is very slow cause you weld alot of small spots.
And the electrode loves to stick to the surface.
Use 6010/6011 (low flux )and about 50 A, keep it hot all the time and cut the stick to 2 for better control and overlap the metal for thicker sidewall.
But remember , that not the way to do the job, if you can buy a Mig welder...DO IT! (worth every cent )
I will post some pics of the weld in the next few days.

Good night from Israel
yam
Ford Sohc Forever!!!

Vermin
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Post by Vermin » Fri May 04, 2007 9:32 am

Hi folks
Yam you would be better off using a low hydrogen rod such as 7014 or 7018 ther is much less penatration as they are designed as surface filler type rods as opposed to deep penetration like in the 10 or 11 series. FYI
Vern
A desire to destroy as many man made hydrocarbon compounds as possible in one lifetime.

kd2
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Post by kd2 » Fri May 04, 2007 3:22 pm

Thank you for the tip, my works are only SS now.
The simple SS rods works just fine with the right technique.
Still i dont recommend this type of process, mig or tig are far more easy&fast.

the price of a Mig/Tig welder and Gas are way more expensive here than the US, thats the only reason im still doing it with the good old stick.
I can post some pics to support my claim.
Ford Sohc Forever!!!

Vermin
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Post by Vermin » Fri May 04, 2007 4:57 pm

If your seams are good you can spot weld with a lot of strength by ofsetting them and still use the arc unit as a power source no grinding slag smoke or splatter.
Vern
A desire to destroy as many man made hydrocarbon compounds as possible in one lifetime.

Mark 42
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Post by Mark 42 » Tue May 29, 2007 7:27 pm

I'm just posting a quick note after skimming this thread... if it's been covered
already, I apologize.

Stay away from cheap chinese Harbor Freght type acetylene regulators.
Mine leaks from the high to the low side, which is dangerous.

Acetylene can explode at about 15 PSI, so this leakage can be a hazard.
I have to shut off the tank valve every time I shut off the flame.

Oxygen regulator is not a lot better. It tends to drift while I weld, which
means keeping a balanced flame is impossible.

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TIG Welding Expertise

Post by larry cottrill » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:21 pm

About an hour ago, I saw a young guy (a student, actually) run a perfect butt weld between two scrap pieces of my .020 inch Type 316 sheet stock. He used a small TIG unit, Argon in the torch, no backing, no gas flow on the back side, no fluxing, and no filler wire at all. His preparation was basically to sand the two edges so they fit together perfectly (no gaps at all). The resulting weld was perfectly smooth both sides (shiny, actually, with no ripple that I could see) and with no observable difference between the metal thickness and the thickness of the weld. There was absolutely no oxidation or pitting of the back side. This was about 40 mm of weld, with a width of maybe 1.5 mm. I don't know what he did about tack welding beforehand, but there was no evidence of it afterward. This was the smoothest and most perfectly uniform welding I have ever seen done by hand.

His technique (he said) was basically to 'goose' the pedal a little to get started, then quickly ease back on the current and move along the seam at just a hair less than the speed he could observe in the melting of the steel surface ahead of the arc. The weld is moved forward without hesitation at this "just right" speed. According to him, you get oxidation of the back side by going too slowly, allowing the temperature to rise beyond what you need to actually fuse the metal. Isn't that interesting? He claims that you can weld this way if you get the current controlled properly and get your speed just right to match it - you are basically controlling temperature by weld speed. Working "right on the edge" of the needed heat and speed.

It was amazing to see how this turned out. Unfortunately, I have no data on the outfit used, but I know it was small and it certainly must be very smoothly controllable at the low current end.

L Cottrill

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Post by kd2 » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:05 pm

Larry, Tig VS Oxy/Stick/mig...
is the equivalent to man power VS hydraulics.
a good welder can do an amazing work with it , some day i will buy one as well.
:wink:

do you have some pics for us?
Ford Sohc Forever!!!

larry cottrill
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Ready to Weld Engines - Maybe ...

Post by larry cottrill » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:31 pm

kd2 wrote:a good welder can do an amazing work with it , some day i will buy one as well.

do you have some pics for us?
Maybe in a couple of weeks, if I'm lucky. I think he's ready to start welding real engine sections now, or with just a bit more practice. This is the thinnest stuff he's ever worked with. He can't work on it full time because of other commitments, but at least he now has some time off from school.

L Cottrill

Irvine.J
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Tig

Post by Irvine.J » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:23 pm

Hi guys,
When I first bought my TIG I was very disappointed, I thought it was a good pulse unit which was apparently better for thin metal as you could control the heat by pulsing a high amp arc to an instant base amp for total control.
For a while there I was burning holes and getting really frustrated, I was good with the mig but almost didn't believe the tig was really worth it....

Now after 3 or 4 engines practice, I absolutely love it! Mind you I'm cheating a little by mig welding the engine first, then running the arc down the mig weld to make better looking leak free joins every day. On the thin stuff, I would HAVE to tig over my mig or I'd still burn holes, but I can fill holes properly now with the tig and overall find it quite enjoyable, gas is expensive though, and on the 0.5mm stuff its looking nicer with each build. Still, the back of the intakes with the TIG are very challenging.
James- Image KEEPING IT REAL SINCE 1982
http://pulseairdefence.com
[url=callto://project42labs]Image[/url]

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Post by El-Kablooey » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:50 pm

Larry, I'm guessing the guy had the two butt-welded pieces clamped tightly to an aluminum table, or a piece of copper. That is the ONLY way, aside from fluxing or backpurging, you can achieve complete penetration on SS without sugaring the backside. SS's melting temperature is well above the temperature it takes to oxidise the chromium.

It is VERY easy to weld thin stainless with the proper machine, and a very good fit. I would rather TIG stainless steel than anything. You should really give it a shot sometime if the opportunity arises. You are quite experienced with the torch, that would make TIG super easy for you to pick up.

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