Gluhareff 130R power failure issue still open ... Any Idear?

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Dave
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Microphone

Post by Dave » Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:24 pm

Luc
One more important thing to look for on the Condenser mic is a 10db down switch. Typically this will allow the mic to operate at much higher SPL. The B5 I recommended had an upper limit of 150db with this feature turned on. Considering what I heard when I was there (that sucker is loud!) it would be a good idea to start with the 10db down switch engaged.
Dave

Viv
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Re: More thoughts on coils.

Post by Viv » Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:27 pm

Dave wrote:Hello All:

Just a few quick thoughts on the coils:

- If resonance does turn out to be the problem and we have difficulty suppressing it with bars, clamps, etc… can we solve the problem another way? EG:

o Redesign the coils to resonate at a frequency that does not interfere with the operation of the engine.

o Redesign the coils to resonate at a frequency that will contribute to the operation of the engine.

o Eliminate the coils altogether by doing something radical like a double wall combustion chamber. The stresses would be tremendous, but think about the surface area available to vaporize fuel injected into the space between inter and outer jacket.

Dave
Retuning the coils is an option but I think stopping thep resonating will put less stress on them.

Tuning them to reinforce a wanted frequency is an idea but the only one we really want is the 576hz but then we run in to a problem with phase locking it to the real inlet.

double wall the entire engine is my prefured option and one I have worked on for some time.

The benifit with that would be all the engines wast heat is put in to the fuel, it insulates the engine from its enviroment as now the outer casing is only at the fuel temperature and not full engine temperature

But as you say the mechanical problems are difficult to solve.

Viv
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luc
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130R PowerFailure

Post by luc » Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:30 pm

Hi Dave,

Yeap...your true with redesigning the coils. Except with the double wall idear. In Canada and USA, all containers, chamber or else that operates with pressure above 90 psig., are considered vehicles under pressure and requires special certifications.

Boommm ... here goes one. I hate blowing up idears like that ... But we have no choice, we must complete an engine that will stay within normal regulations.

Sorry Budy,

Cya,

Luc

Viv
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Re: 130R PowerFailure

Post by Viv » Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:05 pm

Luc wrote:Hi Dave,

Yeap...your true with redesigning the coils. Except with the double wall idear. In Canada and USA, all containers, chamber or else that operates with pressure above 90 psig., are considered vehicles under pressure and requires special certifications.

Boommm ... here goes one. I hate blowing up idears like that ... But we have no choice, we must complete an engine that will stay within normal regulations.

Sorry Budy,

Cya,

Luc
Oh thats a peace of piss then buddy! just make it produce the 130lb of thrust you need at 80psi fuel pressure then it will be under the regulation 90 psi.

Glad I could help:-)

Viv
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luc
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130R Power Failure

Post by luc » Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:23 pm

Hi guys

Viv said :
Oh thats a peace of piss then buddy! just make it produce the 130lb of thrust you need at 80psi fuel pressure then it will be under the regulation 90 psi.
Yeaaaa ... sure .... Why not Viv. Want miracle with that also. 80 psig, your funny... This mean we would have to redesign the nozzle and probably start from scratch... And that my boss would probably run at me with a 12 Ga. and shot me ... he he he ... You guys are funny ... Hi hi hi ... 80 psig.

Okeyy ... Here is a nice sample of my voice that I have recorded with my new stufff, while watching my beautyfull vocal Cords harmonics.
check this out and tell me if you like the quality. I was done with a 48 volts condenser microphone and recorded by "SpectraPlus" software"

See attached file ..

Qaplaaa,

Luc
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My voice.zip
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Viv
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Post by Viv » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:53 pm

Well I tried mate but it was pretty badly distorted, I ran a number of VST filters to try and clien it up but what ever I did it still seemed quite slured, the Rs seemed soft and rolled if you know what i mean.

Sorry I will send it off to Graham to see if he can sort it out on his recording studio desk.

Viv
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Viv
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Post by Viv » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:55 pm

Viv wrote:Well I tried mate but it was pretty badly distorted, I ran a number of VST filters to try and clien it up but what ever I did it still seemed quite slured, the Rs seemed soft and rolled if you know what i mean.

Sorry I will send it off to Graham to see if he can sort it out on his recording studio desk.

Viv
Sorry it was your French accent! it wasnt distorted after all:-)

Viv
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Viv
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Post by Viv » Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:42 am

Well just a quick note for anybody reading the thread over the weekend and wondering were we have got up to with the problem.

Due to the supplier forgetting to load Lucs order of 321 stainless tube on to the delivery lorry! Luc and Patrick could not get the new coils made in time to test out the latest theory.

So we will have to wait untill Monday or Tuesday for them to get the new coils in to the motor and run it up, then we will see if all the problems were down to resonating coils.

Viv
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luc
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130R Power failure

Post by luc » Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:39 pm

Heyyy ... Viv,

Just to piss you a little bit more. Patrick was already on overtime, at noon on friday ... So guess what, he went home. he he he.

So, the next schedule is as follow : Monday we do the coils and anneal them, thuesday we put the engine back and wednesday we run.

Sorry guys ... I live in a production enviroment here and I have rules that I must follow. It is still better then if it would be in my backyard garage ... Because I don't have a garage and all this would probably just some day dreaming chat (No funding).

As for the double wall engine to eliminate the coils and without any mechanical problems, it would be easy to do (Except certification). Just think at an Annular jet engine combustion chamber type. You build the annular C/C with inlet and outlet ... Then, you build the engine arroud (i.e : Nose, tail, 3rd stage diffuser and intake ...ect). But this is something we will do later ... In our backyard garage.

Boommmm ... There you have it boys ....

I am so brillant ... This is the results of 23 years of experience in the aerospace and aeronautical industry ... he he he.

You guys need other easy one like this ... (Viv will say ... "What a big head he is...")

Have a nice weekend guys,

Qaplaaa

Luc

Dave
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Your Sample Sound File

Post by Dave » Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:33 pm

Luc

Hopefully both Viv and Graham have taken a good look at your sound file file and have already provided you with constructive feedback. Just in case they have not, I took a look at it with Sound Forge.

The volume is low, but that can be taken care of with a bit of adjustment. What does trouble me though is the apparent DC offset. Take a look at the attached screen shot and notice that the recording is at about 9db above zero ( "-inf." ). Did Viv and Graham notice anything like this?

Dave
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Viv
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Re: 130R Power failure

Post by Viv » Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:40 pm

Luc wrote:Heyyy ... Viv,

Just to piss you a little bit more. Patrick was already on overtime, at noon on friday ... So guess what, he went home. he he he.

So, the next schedule is as follow : Monday we do the coils and anneal them, thuesday we put the engine back and wednesday we run.

Sorry guys ... I live in a production enviroment here and I have rules that I must follow. It is still better then if it would be in my backyard garage ... Because I don't have a garage and all this would probably just some day dreaming chat (No funding).

As for the double wall engine to eliminate the coils and without any mechanical problems, it would be easy to do (Except certification). Just think at an Annular jet engine combustion chamber type. You build the annular C/C with inlet and outlet ... Then, you build the engine arroud (i.e : Nose, tail, 3rd stage diffuser and intake ...ect). But this is something we will do later ... In our backyard garage.

Boommmm ... There you have it boys ....

I am so brillant ... This is the results of 23 years of experience in the aerospace and aeronautical industry ... he he he.

You guys need other easy one like this ... (Viv will say ... "What a big head he is...")

Have a nice weekend guys,

Qaplaaa

Luc
Wednesday! Wednesday you say! So it was only just a tiny little while ago that you were haranging us for not giving you the answer quick enough.

Now we have we have to wait for the tests to fit in to your time table!

Hey better hope it works buddy, I think on Thursday I need to cut my nails and wash my hair so I probably will be too busy to do any thing, and hey Friday I was going to the gym.

Viv:-)
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Dave
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Recording Tips

Post by Dave » Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:06 pm

Luc

Listed below are a few suggestions on how to set up your new equipment for recording:

1 - Hook up all your recording equipment, but leave it turned off for now.

2 - Make sure your PC software is loaded and ready to record, then set your PC’s Line In level at about 50%.

3 - On the mixer, turn your mic Gain control all the way down (counter clockwise?).

4 - Set the channel EQ controls to the center of their rotation "0".

5 - Be sure the low cut filter is off so the recording is pure.

6 - Set the channel's Level control to the center ("0").

7 - Pull the Main Mix slider all the way down.

8 - Turn on the Phantom Power switch.

9 - Power up the mixer and wait for at least 30 seconds or so for stabilization.

10 - Push the Main Mix slider up about half way.

11 - While carefully watching the Record levels on your PC, start speaking into the microphone while slowly advancing the mixer's mic Gain control until you get a recording level near 0db. Just be careful not to clip the recording or your will have to start over. Most recording software will show a Clip indicator if the level exceeds 0db.

12 – Don't pay much attention to the Main Mix indicator lights on the mixer. Most likely they will show a low signal level as the mixer can drive much more signal than the PC can handle without distortion. The only lights to be very aware of on the mixer are the Peak and Clip lights. If you see either of them come on there is a problem to be addressed.

13 - Have some fun and play around saving and playing files until you are comfortable with the setup before you start to record the engine.

14 - Remember to turn the mixer's mic Gain control all the way back down when you are done as the sound of the engine will be much louder than any scream you can make. When recording just turn it slowly back up to the point where you get an adequate recording level on the PC.

I have also posted a screen shot from a Sound Forge recording that shows good recording levels. You will also note that there is no DC offset in this recording. We still have to work through that issue.

Viv and Graham, feel free to comment on and / or correct anything listed here.

Luc, feel free to experiment and provide us with feedback and questions.

We all look forward to seeing, hearing and reading whatever information you can post to the forum as you move forward. I wish you the best of luck on the engine modifications, tests and recordings.

Dave
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luc
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130R power failure

Post by luc » Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:07 pm

Good morning guys,

Okey ... Update.

Fiest, the coils are already coiled-up, braced and in the oven. When they entered the over, this one was already at 1175 °F and I have settled for 1500°F instead of 2000°F. The longest part of heating those ovens is from 1500 to 2000°F, it could take up to 5 hours and I don't want to lose that time waiting. So ... 1500 °F will be okey, since it is still above their operating temp.

As for the recording of my voice ... I would say ... Ha ha ha ... Very funny Viv. My french accent is NOTHING ... Compare to you British accent... He he he. At least, when I travel arround the world, peoples CAN understand me ... he he he.

Dave ... Thanks for the inputs ... I will to more practicing sessions to improve my skills. When we looked at you doing it here, we though it was easy ... Think again ... That not that easy, as I now realise. After my weekly report, I will strat new sessions and post the files.

So ... The engine should be back together by mid day tomorrow and maybe we could do an afternoon run.

Also, the 3 intake thermocouples will be installed. So we will be able the get some new temp. and see the performance of the new coils ... and see if we can KILL that myth, once and for all.

Also, if I have time today, I will try to make draft you guys, what I ment about an annular C/C. You will see, this would be quite easy to do. And probably later, I will run a CFD of the flow patern inside, to see the propane path.

So ... That it for now .... Will keep you posted.

Qaplaaaa,

Luc

Raymond G
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Post by Raymond G » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:40 pm

Hi All,

I'll be out of town for several days, so just wanted to wish good luck/bon chance! When I get back I expect to read all about your successful tests and your 130 lbf thrust Gluey :o) !!!

Later,
Raymond

luc
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130R Power failure

Post by luc » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:58 pm

Heyyy .... God trip Raymond,

Cross your fingers ... bud. But I am confice we have found something in those Coils vibrations.

Cya,

Luc

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