Liguid Fueled Rockets

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Stephen H
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Post by Stephen H » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:12 pm

Correct me if im wrong here but the reson for having a catalyst was to iliminate the use of ignighters was it not ? what is to bad about ignighters ? why cant they be used ?

Stephen

bobdickgus
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Post by bobdickgus » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:34 pm

if you add methanol to peroxide it will spontaneously combust but there will be a delay
I have done this with around 50% peroxide solution.

You would probably need an initiator to get it to react quickly initially like NH3 once the chamber is hot H202 + methanol should be fine.
Blah Blah Yackarty Smackarty

Stephen H
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Post by Stephen H » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:37 am

would a long match work ??? i think simple just because im to stupid to think smart... only saftey smart!!

Stephen

Tom
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Post by Tom » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:05 pm

what about jetting in a little methanol/ethanol , lighting that with a match, then opening up the valves? this is if the combustion chamber was on it's side, like it would most likely be in a science project .....i think.....

T.

Oh yeah, sodium chlorate and sugar = funfunfun :o) and cool show Bruce
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fwoar
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Sodium chlorate + Sugar is a hell of a lot of fun!!!

Post by fwoar » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:18 pm

Sodium Chlorate (not Chloride which is salt) when mixed with suger creates a very fast and hot burning mixture, when used in the right way (or wrong way depending on how you look at it) can also be quite exsplosive.
what makes it even beter is you can by Sodium Chlorate in moast if not all gerden centres in England, it is sold as a weed killer and is called Sodium Chlorate weed killer (bizarrely enuf) it is about £3 - £4 a Kg and that will make a lot of mixter.
the best mixtur is about 8 parts Sodium Chlorate to 5 parts Suger.

Jonathan[/quote]

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Re: Sodium chlorate + Sugar is a hell of a lot of fun!!!

Post by kenneth » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:42 pm

fwoar wrote:Sodium Chlorate (not Chloride which is salt) when mixed with suger creates a very fast and hot burning mixture, when used in the right way (or wrong way depending on how you look at it) can also be quite exsplosive.
what makes it even beter is you can by Sodium Chlorate in moast if not all gerden centres in England, it is sold as a weed killer and is called Sodium Chlorate weed killer (bizarrely enuf) it is about £3 - £4 a Kg and that will make a lot of mixter.
the best mixtur is about 8 parts Sodium Chlorate to 5 parts Suger.

Jonathan
I know that combination !!

When i was around 16 i made about 30 kg for Sodium Chlorate and sugar , to make Marron's , and i worked great !!!

But But , even though if you use it as a exsplosive , it still works as a weed killer !!
ask my dad when half the lawn was killed :)

kenneth

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Post by Axt » Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:25 pm

30kgs .... thats insane :)

Ive included liquid fuels and oxidizers onto the bottom of this page, that you can use to find the correct amount of fuel for complete combustion which is a useful reference.

http://rogue.altlist.com/html/explosiveproperties.html

So for example if you wanted to find the ratio for hydrogen peroxide / methanol fuel you go 149.8/47.0 = 3.2. So 3.2 times more H2O2 then methanol is needed for combustion.

The first 3 oxidizers have had use in rocket fuels, dont touch the fourth ... literally, it'll immediately set fire to your skin or anything else organic... nasty stuff. The others will do a good job of burning you as well, just not in a burst into flame sort of way.

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50% Peroxide & Methanol

Post by marksteamnz » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:14 am

Armadillo Aerospace are using a mix of high purity 50% peroxide and methanol (mixed monopropellent). This brew is stored in one tank (all mixed togeather) before being feed through a platinum catalyst pack. Sorry to bring this up again but it seems likely unless there is contaminants in the reaction vessel or liquids that act as a catalyst, methanol and 50%peroxide mixed won't self ignite.

www.http://www.armadilloaerospace.com

Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger. Lot's and lots of info at the above url for all to check out.
Cheers
Mark Stacey
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Greg O'Bryant
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re: Liguid Fueled Rockets

Post by Greg O'Bryant » Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:33 am

This is kind of an old post but I am wondering if anybody has any info on a rocket that uses nitric acid for the oxidizer? I know that it is awful to work with but given current technology with plastics(fuel tank) and ceramics(combustion chamber) I think that it is a viable idea? Ecspecially when you consider how cheap and easy it is to get the 70% stuff and how energy dense it really is.
Thanks

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re: Liguid Fueled Rockets

Post by Mark » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:57 pm

I have never seen nitric acid sold in aluminum bottles but perhaps aluminum could be another way to store it in a rocket.
Mark
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Greg O'Bryant
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re: Liguid Fueled Rockets

Post by Greg O'Bryant » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:37 pm

Hmm Aluminum? I just assumed that becuase nitric acid is so reactive that it would eat right through aluminum. I quess not, thanks for the input. Do you know how it reacts with other metals that produce oxide layers like chromium? I do know that it will eat right through stainless steel but perhaps there is an alloy out there that could handle the temp of combustion and also not be oxidized or react with the acid.

RG Rhodes
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re: Liguid Fueled Rockets

Post by RG Rhodes » Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:58 pm

Howdy Greg-
A rocket fueled with nitric acid? Well, I can tell you that the Nike
Ajax was fueled with red fuming nitric acid as oxidizer, and one of
the analine family as fuel. Fuelling the bird is a bit of a pucker.
"Moon suits" are worn by the crew which have hoses coming from
the back to keep them pressurised. Any mistake or mech. malfunction
can result in agonizing death. Recommendation? Find another way.

RG

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re: Liguid Fueled Rockets

Post by Tom » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:09 pm

I think i remember seeing something in my chemistry exam today, an alloy called Duralum or something? It had some garb about it being resistant to acids.


Tom
Experience speaks more then hypothesizing ever can. More-so in chemistry.

Mark
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re: Liguid Fueled Rockets

Post by Mark » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:22 pm

I remember something I read decades ago about nitric acid, something about just a few breaths of it can disable the person, seemingly getting better over the next few days and then you die.
Mark
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Ray(GB)
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Re: Sodium chlorate + Sugar is a hell of a lot of fun!!!

Post by Ray(GB) » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:26 pm

Jon,

I've read on the labels of NaClO3 in uk that it is 'stabilized' presumably meaning it will not burn fast,so can't be misused as an explosive.
Ray.




fwoar wrote:Sodium Chlorate (not Chloride which is salt) when mixed with suger creates a very fast and hot burning mixture, when used in the right way (or wrong way depending on how you look at it) can also be quite exsplosive.
what makes it even beter is you can by Sodium Chlorate in moast if not all gerden centres in England, it is sold as a weed killer and is called Sodium Chlorate weed killer (bizarrely enuf) it is about £3 - £4 a Kg and that will make a lot of mixter.
the best mixtur is about 8 parts Sodium Chlorate to 5 parts Suger.

Jonathan
[/quote]

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