Time to bury the hatchet?

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Anders Troberg
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Time to bury the hatchet?

Post by Anders Troberg » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:53 pm

This is a wonderful site, driven by people with a deep interest in jet engines and science.

However, as people are very interested in the subject, sometimes heated discussions occur. It's a byproduct of the saying "If you want one answer, never ask two specialists", and a natural part of a discussion where the participants care about the subject. Sadly, these issues have sometimes grown too hot, and a several talented members have left or almost stopped participating. Comments have been heard from new members or lurkers about how this place have an angry reputation.

I, personally, think this is sad. An issue may look huge and important when in a heated discussion, but if you look at it in hindsight, maybe it wasn't worth the cost of not "agree to disagree".

This is my plea to both those who have left and those who remain to bury the hatchet, let bygones be bygones and once more make this site a cauldron of creativity. Sure, there was occasional fights and they'll probably sometimes happen in the future, but I think the rest of it still makes it worth it. No one has to be declared winner, we'll just drop the past and look to the future instead.

I hope this reaches those who have left as well, and I hope everybody takes a long think about what the cost of sticking to the old fights is compared to the worth of letting them go.

(This is in no way meant to imply that nothing happens here nowadays, because there's a lot going on. I just mean that there's a lot of talent that could be here that isn't, and that the mood sometimes could be a little less aggressive.)

pezman
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Sowing hatchet in furrow formed by sword-derived plowshare

Post by pezman » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:05 pm

Hmm -- at the risk of starting an argument, I'd suggest that this is a relatively peaceful forum.

Occasional spats seem to be an inevitability on forums. In part because writing is somewhat of a blunt instrument, which makes it hard at times for one to impart the "milleux" of one's thoughts correspondingly easy to misinterpret what another intends (see locution, illocution and perlocution in this article). Also, when you're submitting stuff to a forum, you cannot see the effects of injurious remarks, so it's a little easier to make them.

pgup
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Rusted Hatchet

Post by pgup » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:29 pm

One or more individuals who have left the forum have progressed far beyond anything that could be gained here. Why would they come back for more abuse?

Anders Troberg
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Post by Anders Troberg » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:11 pm

Hmm -- at the risk of starting an argument, I'd suggest that this is a relatively peaceful forum.
Usually, yes. At times, though, people have left because arguments got out of hand, some of them among the "big names".
One or more individuals who have left the forum have progressed far beyond anything that could be gained here. Why would they come back for more abuse?
Good point. It takes a certain amount of goodwill and some kind of understanding that such behaviour will not happen again, and perhaps more active moderation.

marksteamnz
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Re: Rusted Hatchet

Post by marksteamnz » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:29 pm

pgup wrote:One or more individuals who have left the forum have progressed far beyond anything that could be gained here. Why would they come back for more abuse?
Have you any independent evidence of this? From what I've seen members who have stayed in the forum seem to be at a similar point to those who have left.
I'm for vigorous questioning of claims and exposure of flawed logic. Certainly in one case the majority of bile and vitriol were from the person leaving who made an illogical claim. I don't think they should be given a free ride just because they are progressing PJ development
Cheers
Mark Stacey
www.cncprototyping.co.nz

pgup
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Post by pgup » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:46 pm

Mark,

We're not talking about the same individual(s). You had me confused at first, and it took me a while to figure out who you were referring to, but after reading the relevant posts, I agree with you. I think Anders was referring to other individuals as well, but I can't be sure. Rather than carry this further and have this thread degenerate into something completely contrary to the spirit of Anders original intent, I'm going to leave this "Tippy Canoe".

You, Anders and Pezman are all great guys - all three of you have my respect. Suffice it to say that I agree with all three points of view you gentlemen have expressed. A great day to all.

Anders Troberg
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Post by Anders Troberg » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:40 am

I don't want to go into details about who I'm talking about, as I feel it may put undue pressure on them. Let's just say that there is a bunch of people I miss and which I think the community would be stronger if they returned. I think most of them know who they are anyway.

Frankly, if it has progressed to a point where "One or more individuals who have left the forum have progressed far beyond anything that could be gained here. Why would they come back for more abuse?", there is a problem. A serious problem, which should be adressed urgently. No one should have to take that kind of abuse, and it's the responsibility of not only the moderators, but of all members to do their best to make sure that it does not happen. That's just common courtesy, and I think that by just raising awareness that the problem exists might make people more inclined to think a second time before going postal verbally.

My intent was to try to create a spirit of "letting old battles end, resolved or not" and "starting with a clean slate". Reaching out a hand in a "agree to disagree" and all that stuff.

Not here, but on other forums, I've been dragged into situations where every single discussion with certain individuals end up with a regurgitation of every old discussion we have had, and when it comes to that, the situation soon becomes impossible unless one can manage to drop the history and return to a clean slate. Sometimes I've been successful in such gestures, sometimes not, but it's worth a try.

Just see this as a general request that everybody thinks a bit about "What can I do to improve the mood here?".

Mike Everman
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Post by Mike Everman » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:56 pm

Well, people come and go as with any forum, for many reasons. I just want everyone to know that now that I am the poobah around here, I take a dim view of harsh words, and will stomp heavily on them.

Many of our historical problems arose from knee-jerk reactions from an injured party, usually with very insulting retaliatory posts, before any mod could short-circuit the problem.

I ask that a breath be taken, allow a moderator to act before you do, and said mod can give the offender a chance to re-phrase, or retract.

As pointed out here very clearly, it is difficult sometimes to convey intent in the written word. Thick skins make this forum a better place, and time SHOULD heal all. People change, and become more patient. Someone that only a few years ago wouldn't "suffer ignorance" may now be found to be very helpful to a newbie.

I too would like some contributors from the past to come back, with my pledge that I will keep it civil. Let's all of us active contributors teach by example, and know that not many can craft a negative post that leaves the target happy. Debate is good, personal attack is not.

We may be called ignorant at times, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. It's a call to hit the books, or pony up the data that supports your view.

Making it personal and taking it personally is a two-way street. It takes both to make a flame-war!
Mike
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Irvine.J
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gauntlet thrown, gauntlet picked up

Post by Irvine.J » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:47 am

gauntlet thrown, gauntlet picked up, now I'm ready to bludgeon you over the head with said gauntlet....

I have no idea who you are CG, PGUP… pffft, hows that Quad-polar coming along?
So heres the deal. You have attacked me and my engines on numerous occasions now.
Listen, I wont pretend to know your real name Annabelle, but going back to what Anders was saying, it was basically a peace offering to you and other members who disappeared after a spat. In all honesty Claudia, that was probably the worst thing you could have possibly said, are you saying that you gained or earned nothing at all for your time here Bianka? In all your infinite glory and wisdom, Anastasia, don't you think you could find anything better to do then troll the forum attacking the legitimacy of work done by people who use their real names as they need not fear, they have their names here to back their ideas and their claims, we aren't at an all girls high school after all are we Kimberly?

Look man if you truely wanted to come back, and contribute to the forum, help out the newbies, share your ideas and your advice, DO IT! It benefits NO ONE to run around having a negative attitude towards everyone.

In all honestly, Loraine, if you have gone so much further why did you come back, to gloat on a bunch of deaf ears that really don't care what you think? As a schitzophrenic quad-polar kid with a bad attitude, I think its already gone too far for long enough. I personally wont tolerate any more BS remarks from you without an extremely prejudicial reaction, now that I know where Anders buried the hatchet.

I love this forum, I love the people in it like brothers, shame there is always one who wants to spoil it all for their own oral self-gratification.

I wrote this here not to taint mikes awesome engine post.
Last edited by Irvine.J on Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike Everman
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Post by Mike Everman » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:21 am

James, you're going to have to tone it down, fella.

Dave, there's only one that has not laid down weapons. Now we have a flame war. How about skipping the noms de plume and playing nice?
Mike
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