Odd Metal jars

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Nick
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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by Nick » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:29 am

Ref " realy need to get a more acurate valve, the one on the 11kg propane tank's a bitch .."

I believe i might have mentioned this :roll: :lol:



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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by PyroJoe » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:23 pm

Metiz,
What measure of alcohol do you apply to start?

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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by metiz » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:10 pm

Nick wrote: I believe i might have mentioned this :roll: :lol:
I thought that you meant "do whatever is cheapest and easiest" with that :lol:
and i DID get it going properly once :P

I use about 20-30ml per run, but it will work with a lot less. Not a bad idea actually, the methanol fumes are killing me (figuratively)
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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by PyroJoe » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:35 pm

Many thanks metiz,

another piece of the puzzle.

25 milliliters = 5.07 teaspoons
25 milliliters = 1.69 tablespoons

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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by metiz » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:33 pm

I did a couple more test today. Still no perfect popane runs. long ones, but not indefinite. I was using a big dust bin for cooling water since I still don't have a radiator. This was standing on the floor filled with like 50 liters of water. My little aquariumpump struggled to get water flowing through the loop; only a bit was coming out at the other end. When the jar was running exceptionally well, the waterflow stopped altogether. Instead, steam was coming out! The entire garage was white in no time :P
On the positive side, my pores have never looked better:P

On a serious note, it almost looks like this jar doens't realy like to run cold. After the steamrun, I put the bin higher to get the water flowing normal. from there on, the jar just remained plain cold even with longer runs. the steam run lasted the longest of all. I think the Reynst will work at its best at 50+ degrees. This means that the big bin of water might be an issue

Still all just speculation, more testing needed.
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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by metiz » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:58 pm

This is a test from yesterday

I had the cooling container lower than the engine, giving my pump a hard time getting water around. When it ran, instead of pumping water back into the container, it just blew steam, blanketing my garage. Incidentally, that pretty much was the best run of the day. I realy do think this engine likes being realy hot...

I also tried a gravity feed of liquid fuel today. I had a needle with the point inside the internal duct mounted to the jar. Attached to this was a piece of hose and a cut up soda bottle, hanging from the ceiling. It lasted about 2 minutes at low throttle before turning off. It works, but the bottle needs to hang a bit higher.

youtube video of the steamrun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RWJeYxL9DI
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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by metiz » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:08 pm

This is the setup I'm currently using. It's working reasonably well.

Pyrojoe: a correction on the fuel. I said between 20 and 30ml. I asumed I had a 100ml syringe but it turns out to be 10. Silly me. So I use between 5 and 10ml per run.
Attachments
100_2205.jpg
100_2208.jpg
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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by PyroJoe » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:33 pm

Thanks for the details of the injector position.
5mL is about a teaspoon

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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by Nick » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:29 am

Hi Joe , are you going to build one too, Nick?
PyroJoe wrote:Thanks for the details of the injector position.
5mL is about a teaspoon

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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by PyroJoe » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:28 pm

Definitely,
Currently on the hunt to find a sensitive valve, and maybe some options to dampen the propane surge as the fuel is transitioned.

The sensitivity of the valve, and the transition from alcohol to propane appears to be no trivial process.


Its kinda strange that it is a task to switch from propane to liquids in VPJs, and from liquids to propane in jars. Probably some irony I guess.

Metiz, can you give some description of how you make the transition?
do you bring the propane online when the alcohol is nearly spent or do you bring the propane up and allow the jar to run a little rich until the alcohol is depleted?

Or is it just one of those hit and miss tasks?

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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by metiz » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:02 pm

Hey Joe

I usually let it run for a short while before I introduce propane. Otherwise I have to constantly adjust the fuel flow to compensate for the decreasing amount of Meth, and slightly adjusting the fuel flow is nearly impossible. It's even tricky to take my hand of the valve and then later put it back on to adjust fuel. the slightest movement will throw things out of wack.

for restriction, how about a normal bbq restrictor first, then a heavy restrictor and a small needle valve. If you open up the tank valve fully, the first restrictor should eliminate surges, the second one decreases fuel flow further, and then the needle valve will allow for super fine control.
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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by PyroJoe » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:36 pm

Thanks Metiz
Have something along those lines planned.

I figure it will run from the tank valve into a fine needle valve then into a deflated balloon to dampen any surges. Then from the balloon into a copper injector similar to what is shown above.

The reaction time will suffer, but the sensitivity should be good.

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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by metiz » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:29 pm

A friend suggested putting a piece of sponge in a pipe and running gas through that. This might also serve as a surge suppressor
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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by Nick » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:32 am

metiz wrote:A friend suggested putting a piece of sponge in a pipe and running gas through that. This might also serve as a surge suppressor
I'm sending Metiz a super sensitive valve of my own design, cant wait to see how he gets on :D - I'm hoping the super long run times that i got can be repeated :D
Then i can consider the design "proved"

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Re: Odd Metal jars

Post by BJ521 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:10 am

So many things to try and think about with these little guys.
The four finned one ran for an appreciable amount of time, maybe with a water bath it could go even longer.
Is the aluminum can a typical Coke can or something thicker? If it is made of thin aluminum, the erratic flexing of the walls will probably dampen the feedback, not to mention a sideways flow will toy with the fueling laying on its side like that, if you are just relying on putting some methanol in the can and firing it hanging on a string. Lots of movement to contend with.

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