Today's tidbits

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Mark
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:17 am

Today I got some cobalt blue mug jam jars in the mail. I was hoping to run them as jam jars and see a pretty blue light in the dark, as I held them by their handle. Three things come to mind. One is laser, how feedback develops in a cylindrical mirrored tube, the second is a tuned segmented motorcycle exhaust that a manufacturer said had to be exactly round in sections or else the effect was ruined, and also something recent I read where a testing of a pulsejet with a flat glass window for high speed photography was very hard to do. One scientist speculated the flat wall shape was somehow dampening the feedback of the engine.
So tonight I tried my new blue jam jars with rounded square sides if you can picture it. It's just a jam jar with a handle and the shape is not round but a rounded four corners. Anyway, attempt after attempt, the ~pint jam jar whooshed but did not sustain. It so looks like a typical jam jar for the most part, but not perfectly cylindrical. So I then took the same lid and put it on a round jam jar and it reved right up.
I'm inclined to believe the flatish sides of my blue jars are dampening feedback, as crushing as this is to believe. They will not run, a trick I was not aware of.
I was thinking of the Gluhareff and how they want to foil feedback I think, by putting a fish mouth on the tail end. If so, I would recommend a square combustion chamber or tail pipe, I seem to be having "good luck" with that shape. Just shoot me.
Mark
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And these are the kind I bought, I'm holding back tears, because they don't work, it's astounding!
http://images.auctionworks.com/fullView ... ltmugs.jpg
Ah, trial and error.
Mark
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steve
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by steve » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:24 am

sorry to hear it mark. At least you now have some stylish new mugs!
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Mark
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:30 am

I have suffered the indignity of the law of resonance. In the jam jar realm, round is in. I wonder though if a triangular shape would work or if it is contingent on a myriad of things, such as size, dimension, or the way you hold your mouth?
I know Chris had a three sided pulsejet than ran. I think nothing is written in stone except for the fact that pulsating combustioni is sneaky.
Mark
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Mark
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Re: re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:34 am

steve wrote:sorry to hear it mark. At least you now have some stylish new mugs!
I have mugs, free to a good home! I feel like I have been playing three card monty.
Mark
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:59 am

Blue jars revisted--After posting results of my expensive bottle of Everclear 190 proof not sold in Florida but bought on the internet from the state of Missouri, ethanol testing in front of my computer, I became curious if methanol out in my garage might be just enough to get the fussy jar to run. So it ran for a second or two and flamed out, yet my Reynst jam jar will run for a long time with either ethanol or methanol, but methanol is best. So then, refer to attached picture of the two jars and lids and lighter and step drill bit with exacting steps to calibrate which size hole works best.
I thought the jars looked about the same size, the same volume, but the blue jar is actually a pint, (16 ounces), whilst the clear jar is only 12 ounces. I just now filled both and poured them into a measuring cup. Anyway, I switched to a very slightly larger sized hole, a half inch hole for the blue jar and it ran for about 5 seconds and flamed out. It seems I was using too small a hole for the size jar, but still I can sense the odd shape of the jar is making the combustion more unstable than my other pint sized jam jars. To sum up, the blue jar is 1/4 more volume, (4ounces more than the clear jar).
Never believe anything I say. I shoot from the hip, and am too eager to conclude results I guess.
One thing I can say is that the lovely blue color of the jar running in total darkness was not realized. For some reason it is not nearly as vivid or intense as a green copper tinted flame or a green boric acid tinted flame. It was a pale blue glow and not what you would think. How sad there.
Mark
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:45 am

Yes, I have run large common quart sized canning jars that are squarish, but for some reason these shorter square jars seem fussy to me. I had a squarish quart jar that grapefruit slices came in too and it cracked in about 3 seconds, which was quite startling.
I'm going to try an even larger hole than a half inch and see if I can tame them into running longer. I don't think jars like to run the closer the height is to the width. I think the height should be the longer dimension, I've some very short wide marmalade jars and they suck.
The only variable with the blue jars is that there are two indentations inside where the handle is fused to the jar and the inside lower handle connection is very irregular too, like they blobbed on extra glass the size of a silver dollar on the inside, even with the indentation, like an ant mount with a depression in the center
On the side at the bottom, the blue jars read in tiny raised letters "NOT FOR HOME CANNING" and "NOT FOR HOT PRODUCTS". ha
Pictured is a similar squarish pint jar without a handle and a quart jar that also has slightly square sides even thought the scan didn't capture it.
Mark
PS Good point about the faint blue color Ben, maybe I can try some boric acid green and see if it helps or not, maybe I could "make" a new color with the blue filter of the glass. I wonder if a sodium yellow would help out? Still, I would have thought the blue would have been better than that in total darkness. Alas.
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:44 am

I have a pressure washer that warns not to use a hose to the faucet shorter than 6 feet or so, I think it might cause a hammer effect to form or something and damage the engine? So, again I was wondering if you injected a steady "gentle" stream of air into a jam jar, if you could induce a "hammer" or chuffing effect, just as if it were running on alcohol? Maybe by using a very stiff air hose of metal tubing or perhaps by using a very flexible air hose you could build up a resonance in jelly jar?
Mar
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Re: re: Today's tidbits

Post by larry cottrill » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:19 pm

Ben wrote:The light of running on methanol is already very blue and dim. There aren't really any other colors of light to filter out, so it won't get any bluer.
This is quite interesting because of my experiments with polyethylene Mylanta Tablets jars. Using Heet for fuel, they glow with an eery blue-green light that seems quite bright when viewed in the dark. These are the ones that collapse and shrink down if you run them long enough, like the Wicked Witch of the West shriveling up after being hit with water. I really ought to get that on video.

If anyone wants to try these, they are really quite amusing. They're the larger size Mylanta Tablets jars, about 3 inches or so in height. The lid is plastic; I remove the paper sealing disk. I just start by piercing the center with a pointed Exacto knife and carve round and round until I end up with a 5/16-inch hole. I can do it in about five minutes. The hole will gradually melt out bigger as the engine runs, of course.

Just put in a little Heet, snug down the lid, close the hole with your thumb and give it a single good shake [as Ben taught me]. Let it rest a few seconds, turn off the room lights and light with a match or Aim'n'Flame type lighter. Usually, it starts out with a surprisingly loud whoosh, then is quiet for a second or two and finally starts to rev, with a buzz that reminds me of a small 'dirt bike' though not nearly as loud, of course.

L Cottrill

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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:20 pm

Well let's see Larry, the Milanta bottle is probably thinner than these dark cobalt colored jars, mine are almost black in low light. I wonder if there are any glasses that would make for an unusual color, maybe I should be using milliflora glass or some rainbow colors, I wouldn't be happy with a single color, now that I think about it.
http://www.rainbowglass.plus.com/
Or something like this but more translucent.
http://www.jordanaco.com/bottles.html
http://www.chihuly.com/ Lots here but you have to search.
I can't find any great examples in the glass department, but I know some winners are out there. I want to Ted Turner, (in a positive way), the clear jam jar.
How interesting jam jars are if you explore every nook and cranny. They are full of surprises, thanks for the Milanta story Larry.
I've seen some stuff/stain you can dip glass into, in any color, all sorts of pretty shades but it might not hold up for too long, but maybe as long as the glass would.
Mark
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by larry cottrill » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:25 pm

Ben -

Just to clarify: The blue-green color is basically just the color of the plastic. The part that makes it fun is the way it glows like a "Japanese lantern" while it's running. The brightness of it when seen in a dark room was totally unexpected with an alcohol flame, and I really can't explain it.

These little jars don't have a removable label - it's silk screened on or something. So what you see is the wonderful blue-green glow of the plastic, modified by the differing colors and densities of the label paint. I think my mouth must have dropped open the first time I saw it. All I was expecting to see in the dark was the flame jetting out through the hole.

L Cottrill

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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:40 pm

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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:42 pm

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re: Today's tidbits

Post by larry cottrill » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:26 pm

No, Mark - Tablets - chew your tablets ...

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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:34 pm

I was getting kicked off this morning and so I was rushing to post and that is why I posted twice, the first thing I saw. And I was doing so well the last week, but now again I've had to log on several times just to finally make it to this page.
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re: Today's tidbits

Post by Mark » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:35 pm

If there are traces of sodium in the alcohol, it can mask or overpower the other more delicate colors. I was just reading where cobalt blue glass, (my dark blue mug jars) will absorb the yellow lines of sodium.
http://www.soinc.org/forensics/flametest.pdf
Mark
Last edited by Mark on Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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