Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Moderator: Mike Everman

Nathan
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:33 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Tennessee, USA

Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Nathan » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:01 pm

I've noticed a lot of nice looking welds on stainless as I have scoured photos both on the Forum and other web-sites. I'm not a welder but I have and have often used an AC/DC stick welder so I'm not totally unfamiliar with basic welding. I know that's not how stainless is welded but how are you guys sticking it together and making it look so good? Tig? Mig or gas-shielded Mig? Elmers' glue? Are there any web-sites that would be helpful to teach me something about welding stainless or must I get a welder and just burn holes in a bunch of scrap before I start building an engine?

Here's a few web-sites I found interesting. See what you think.

"Tig welder built from a Ford alternator"
http://classicbroncos.com/homemade-welder.shtml

Stainless steel exhaust tubing and bends
http://www.stainlessworks.net/

Slip roll machine
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rolls/rolls.html
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/slip/

Dave
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:03 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Dave » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:25 am

Nathan

The following link is to the Burns Stainless web site and contains information on stainless automotive header construction. There many similarities between headers and pulse jets. While you are there, click around the site a bit. You may find some other useful information.

Dave

http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechArtic ... ction.html

Bruno Ogorelec
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 7:31 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:03 pm

Burns stainless... I always cream my pants when I visit their website. Pure SS pornography of the highest order.

Tom
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 12:55 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: UK

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Tom » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:59 pm

Holy Crap. I see what you mean Bruno. Surprised I didn't come across a members area and a free preview movie ; oP Anyone else see the inconel tubing...?

Tom
Experience speaks more then hypothesizing ever can. More-so in chemistry.

Nathan
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:33 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Nathan » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:55 pm

Although I know this may not have much practical application to pulse jet engine building, I wanted to do something besides cerebral work that would make me think I'm getting started on my engine. The picture below is of 4 pieces of 20gauge (.0359") SS lapped about 1/4" each. They were welded with a Lincoln AC/DC "stick" welder. The amperages and the polarity are listed above each pass and the direction of travel is listed under each pass. The rod was a 3/32" 309/309L-17 Blue and was inclined at about 45 degrees in the direction of travel. No editing has been done to the photo. After the weld had cooled enough to hold the piece, I chipped the slag away with a chipping hammer, buffed the weld with a brass wire wheel, and polished it with red rouge on a muslin wheel at 3450 RPM.

The second photo shows the backside of the same. You can reference it by the big hole. I did not brush or polish this side as I wanted to check the penetration and possible Chromium migration. Since my welder can't be set any lower than 30A I guess it doesn't matter, but it looks as if there is too much penetration even at this low amperage. Those bumps and lumps would probably be impossible to grind off in order to smooth the airflow when an engine is assembled, especially smaller engines.

This method does not appear to hold much merit for thin sheet metal but might could be used on some heavier parts of a bigger engine or a big, thick-walled PDE.
Attachments
100_4888.jpg
(362.71 KiB) Downloaded 1372 times
100_4889.jpg
(318.15 KiB) Downloaded 1381 times

Mike Everman
Posts: 4930
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:25 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: santa barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Mike Everman » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:59 am

go to www.cutslikeplasma.com

The Henrob OA torch is what I use, and it's amazing. I've since gotten a TIG, but haven't started using it yet since the Henrob works so well on thin stuff, and it's a lot cheaper.
Mike
__________________________
Follow my technical science blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
Get alerts for the above on twitter at: http://twitter.com/mikeeverman

Eric
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:17 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Eric » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:40 am

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! love the pics, know exactly how you feel, except I was trying to stick weld 24 gauge. I usually started with a few thousand spot welds, and then once i built up enough mass I just welded them all together with a quick bead over top.

Thats why I upgraded to a mig, I can now weld 24 gauge, but its nothing like what I could do with a lincoln electric precision tig welder.....Sigh....

Welds down to 2 amps, they show a pic in their flyers of 2 pieces of metal welded, with a penny sitting on top of it, with the precision tig you can fusion weld the edge of a piece of metal about 1/10th (.1mm) the thickness of a penny and make it look like a perfect row of microscopic coins. Now if only i had a spare 2500 :(

Hey Mike, since your not using your tig, why dont you send it to me :D you know you are never going to use it making all those kazoos ;)

Eric
Image

Talking like a pirate does not qualify as experience, this should be common sense, as pirates have little real life experience in anything other than smelling bad, and contracting venereal diseases

Mike Everman
Posts: 4930
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:25 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: santa barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Mike Everman » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:19 am

I just need the argon bottle and some time. Ha, Ha, by the way! I nearly had to sell my soul to fit this one in the finances.
Mike
__________________________
Follow my technical science blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
Get alerts for the above on twitter at: http://twitter.com/mikeeverman

Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Al Belli » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:15 pm

Hi Eric,

The welder You mentioned will cost close to $4,500 ready to weld. I recommend the Invertec V-160T which will cost about $2200 ready to weld. This is perfect for thin stainless since it has pulsing capability built in.

Al Belli

Mike Everman
Posts: 4930
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:25 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: santa barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Mike Everman » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:58 am

for $350 you seriously can't beat the Henrob torch. My tubing is typically .035", now using mostly stainless, but have no trouble with thinner stuff. It's amazing.
Just did this tonight.
Attachments
misc0005_5.JPG
(185.26 KiB) Downloaded 1270 times
misc0003_3.JPG
(348.61 KiB) Downloaded 1282 times
Mike
__________________________
Follow my technical science blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
Get alerts for the above on twitter at: http://twitter.com/mikeeverman

Mike Everman
Posts: 4930
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:25 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: santa barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Mike Everman » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:02 am

Nathan, I should mention that I had no experience at all with welding before the henrob, and started right in on engines. I still have probably less than 10' of welding bead under my belt if all layed out in a line. It's very easy to get good results with this little baby.
Mike
__________________________
Follow my technical science blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
Get alerts for the above on twitter at: http://twitter.com/mikeeverman

larry cottrill
Posts: 4140
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 1:17 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Mingo, Iowa USA
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by larry cottrill » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:27 pm

Well, Mike, that is nice, carefully done work, whatever the technique!

What did you use to prevent oxidation on the hidden side?

L Cottrill

Mike Everman
Posts: 4930
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:25 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: santa barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Mike Everman » Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:37 pm

I haven't used anything so far. I think .035 is thick enough not to care.
Mike
__________________________
Follow my technical science blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
Get alerts for the above on twitter at: http://twitter.com/mikeeverman

Nathan
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:33 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Nathan » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:57 pm

Mike,

Your cut and weld both impress the snot out of me. Do I understand correctly that you are at present using the Henrob to both cut and weld? If so, what kind of filler rod and flux are you using? What are the pressure settings on the regs? Acetylene and O2?

I can't get Henrob link http://www.cutslikeplasma.com to work to be able to see it.

I read on a welding site somewhere (didn't bookmark, lost to memory) that the Henrob uses a single jet of O2 to blow the molten metal out of the cut thereby not allowing the metal to refreeze behind the cut as with "regular" torches. Is that a correct statement? Also, someone on that same site said that other manufacturers made similar torches for less money. Any info? Again, nice pictures of nice work.

Nathan

Mike Everman
Posts: 4930
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:25 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: santa barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Tig, Mig, or Elmers' glue?

Post by Mike Everman » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:44 pm

oops, it's: cut-like-plasma.com

the torch needs a (very) reliable 4psi on both oxy and acetylene, so it really sips gas. I haven't cut with it cause I use standard sizes of tube cut with a pipe cutter, but there's some nice videos on the site of them shaving off thin ribbons on 1" thick steel. you can use the small tip to write your name in thick material.
filler rod is just regular ss 1/16 or 3/32 dia. ss or copper plated steel, same flame setting on mild steel too. the weld above was just a fusion weld as the washer (cone made with a washer in a press) was about .090" thick.
no flux, but I'd expect to use solarflux on the inside of thinner jobs or purge with argon and plug.
they say that the worst time is had by guys that have a lot of experience with conventional rigs. it's my only experience, so the one page tutorial that came with the torch were enough to teach me in zero time.
Paul Skinner, ("principal skinner") has one and recommended it to me and I'm glad he did. he does aluminum airframe work with it.
Mike
__________________________
Follow my technical science blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
Get alerts for the above on twitter at: http://twitter.com/mikeeverman

Post Reply