Turbine Idea...
Moderator: Mike Everman
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Turbine Idea...
Hi All,
Ive been lurking around here for a while, planning a first gas Turbine.
Ive had an old turbo lying around for a while, and the other night, after a couple of glasses of red I was looking at it:
And a thought occured, I wonder if I con conver this to Axial flow and use it as the basis for an engine.
The turbine and shaft are one piece, and still have the original centers in them.
If I cut and trim it on the lathe like this:
What are the chances of it working as an axial turbine?
cheers
Dave
Ive been lurking around here for a while, planning a first gas Turbine.
Ive had an old turbo lying around for a while, and the other night, after a couple of glasses of red I was looking at it:
And a thought occured, I wonder if I con conver this to Axial flow and use it as the basis for an engine.
The turbine and shaft are one piece, and still have the original centers in them.
If I cut and trim it on the lathe like this:
What are the chances of it working as an axial turbine?
cheers
Dave
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Hi Dave
Very little chance of it working as an axial stage ..............there needs to be work added to the air for compression to take place , the centrif. comps inducer is designed to produce the least amount of disturbance to the incoming air until it is well and truly "captured" within the blade ducts , you'll be cutting it off at that point .
Another thing to consider is the need for an efficient stator stage behind the axial comp stage , and even if both are designed well , you generally only get a pressure ratio of ~1.2 :1 across an axial stage , bugger all pressure build , then theres the need to have an appropriately sized/designed turb stage to go with your modified axial comp , a lot of design work for very little power , better to stick with the centrif comp unless you know what you're doing
Cheers
John
Very little chance of it working as an axial stage ..............there needs to be work added to the air for compression to take place , the centrif. comps inducer is designed to produce the least amount of disturbance to the incoming air until it is well and truly "captured" within the blade ducts , you'll be cutting it off at that point .
Another thing to consider is the need for an efficient stator stage behind the axial comp stage , and even if both are designed well , you generally only get a pressure ratio of ~1.2 :1 across an axial stage , bugger all pressure build , then theres the need to have an appropriately sized/designed turb stage to go with your modified axial comp , a lot of design work for very little power , better to stick with the centrif comp unless you know what you're doing
Cheers
John
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Re: Turbine Idea...
John,
I think youve miss understood...
I intend to use a centrifugal compressor, I was wondering about using this as the turbine (HOT) end bit.
It is made from heat resistant alloy, it is already attached to a shaft, which has accurate centers in it.
It came from a turbocharger, but the inlet compressor on this unit is toast, so Ill have to make a compressor.
Dave
I think youve miss understood...
I intend to use a centrifugal compressor, I was wondering about using this as the turbine (HOT) end bit.
It is made from heat resistant alloy, it is already attached to a shaft, which has accurate centers in it.
It came from a turbocharger, but the inlet compressor on this unit is toast, so Ill have to make a compressor.
Dave
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Hi Dave
Duhhh............LOL...I really should pay more attention to what I'm doing , .......................There are some radial turbs that are "mixed flow" in that they're got a part axial component and are being used in high pressure ratio turbos , but converting a radial turb into an axial one is still fraught with dangers , I've looked at some turbs with the same thoughts as you but whenever I do the maths on such a conversion it doesn't work out , the exducer section is generally a good bit smaller in diameter than the inducer , and as we "normally" need to run an axial turb of ~90-100% of the comp diameter to get sufficient power to drive the comp, a "cutdown" radial turb would need a smaller comp than it would normally have mated to that turb , then theres flow areas at the cutdown's inlet , you'd need to grind away some of the turbs "back wall", this may structually weaken it to the point where it could explode and do some very serious damage to you.
As I said in my first email , unless you know what you're doing , better to stick with the original bits for safety sake
Cheers
John
Duhhh............LOL...I really should pay more attention to what I'm doing , .......................There are some radial turbs that are "mixed flow" in that they're got a part axial component and are being used in high pressure ratio turbos , but converting a radial turb into an axial one is still fraught with dangers , I've looked at some turbs with the same thoughts as you but whenever I do the maths on such a conversion it doesn't work out , the exducer section is generally a good bit smaller in diameter than the inducer , and as we "normally" need to run an axial turb of ~90-100% of the comp diameter to get sufficient power to drive the comp, a "cutdown" radial turb would need a smaller comp than it would normally have mated to that turb , then theres flow areas at the cutdown's inlet , you'd need to grind away some of the turbs "back wall", this may structually weaken it to the point where it could explode and do some very serious damage to you.
As I said in my first email , unless you know what you're doing , better to stick with the original bits for safety sake
Cheers
John
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Guess Ill put it back on the shelf with the other 'someday' junk and make the whole lot from scratch then.
I do have both shrecklings books and kamps, so at least I have some designs to work from.
Dave
I do have both shrecklings books and kamps, so at least I have some designs to work from.
Dave
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Hi Dave
Where are you situated ??
Cheers
John
Where are you situated ??
Cheers
John
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Im in the Uk, just of J23 of the M1 (Loughborough ish)
Dave
Dave
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Hi Dave
Theres plenty of small axial turbine wheels available in the UK , no need to go to the trouble of modifying a radial one , have you checked out the GTBA ??
Cheers
John
Theres plenty of small axial turbine wheels available in the UK , no need to go to the trouble of modifying a radial one , have you checked out the GTBA ??
Cheers
John
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Yes Ive checked out the GTBA, and I know there are wheels available.
I have the equipment and skills to make an engine. (CVA lathe, TOS FNK25, J&S 540 etc etc)
Its not a question of how do I make one, more a would this free thing Ive had lying around for a couple of years with no particular purpose be usable and hence gain a purpose?
The other part is of course the satisfaction of making things. Any fool* can buy the bits an assemble an item, but to make one completely is much more fulfilling.
Dave
* well not any fool, but perhaps a less skilled individual who can use spanners...
I have the equipment and skills to make an engine. (CVA lathe, TOS FNK25, J&S 540 etc etc)
Its not a question of how do I make one, more a would this free thing Ive had lying around for a couple of years with no particular purpose be usable and hence gain a purpose?
The other part is of course the satisfaction of making things. Any fool* can buy the bits an assemble an item, but to make one completely is much more fulfilling.
Dave
* well not any fool, but perhaps a less skilled individual who can use spanners...
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Re: Turbine Idea...
Hi Dave
Why don't you use the radial inflow turbine wheel as is ??
My latest creation ....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y8jpaDTkEY has one
Cheers
John
Why don't you use the radial inflow turbine wheel as is ??
My latest creation ....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y8jpaDTkEY has one
Cheers
John
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Re: Turbine Idea...
I might just do that...
cheers
Dave
cheers
Dave