Vacume cleaner turbine?

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Zippiot
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Vacume cleaner turbine?

Post by Zippiot » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:41 pm

While watching an episode of mythbusters I was inspiried, they failed to make a vacume cleaner into a turbine...

I have a shop vac I dont use b/c I found it and its dirty and doesnt have a blower function, so I tore into it to get a better look at the motor. To my surprize not only does it have a nice centrifugal compressor, but it also has a little fan that could be use as the turbine (someone make sure I am using the words turbine comrpessor and such correctly) and it has that stationary row of little blades (what is that called...compressor?).

I think that if I make an aluminum casting of the stationary compressor, that is all the compex fabricating I would need to do. Everything is already formed fitted and on a high-speed bearing...


Of coruse I know this is a compelx project and I am in for a doozy, I still think I can make a turbine out of a vacume cleaner.

Some pics:
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Johansson
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Post by Johansson » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:11 pm

That "turbine" is nothing but a crude fan to cool the electric motor, using it as a turbine would not work at all as you might have guessed...

The compressor is a bit similar to the one in the old Schreckling engine FD3/64 that used a homemade compressor wheel made from plywood.

I don´t know what power rating the motor has, but if a relatively weak (~1 Hp?) motor is enough to power the compressor at its design speed it cannot produce any measurable pressure.

Fun idea though. Start building it, it would be worth all the trouble if you could get it running!

//Anders

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Post by Bounce » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:14 pm

Hi
As Anders said, the old Schreckling turbines have flown with the same type of compressor wheels but made of plywood. Yours looks like made out of aluminium or something. With a proper turbine wheel it could, imho, get together to a working turbine.

PS: The ''Row of little blades'' is callled diffusor.

Greetings, Dennis

pablo
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Post by pablo » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:00 am

funny!

i was working on something similar this week, and i tried it this morining.

in my vac cleaner the compressor was also used to cool the engine, so i had to make a NGV and the turbine out of sheet metal (like fd3)

the result is really crappy, so i doubt it'll work.

anyway, when i lit it this morning i wasn't able to "send" the flame into the CC, it just kept burning the propane after the turbine disk.

so, what's the problem?

do i need a spark plug (i'm using a lighter after the turbine)?
or is my flame tube design incorrect?
could some strips or sheet metal in a (caothic?) pattern help the mixing to avoid the need of a new one?

thanks and happy new year!

Pablo

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Post by Zippiot » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:24 am

Diffuser I KNEW THAT ONE!~!!!!!

Maybe I shouldn't stay out till 7am...

It is a 5hp vacume, motor makes some wicked torque on startup!
So I need a different turbine wheel, any idea where I can find one cheap (not looking for an iconel wheel this is just a play engine to test an idea)?

Well I should start drawing stuff up, if it works it works if not...oh well
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pablo
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Post by pablo » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:45 am

this might help or at least give you an idea

http://www.enjoysky.com.cn/jet/tuzhi/fd3-64.pdf

it's the fd3 book (unfortunately in chinese), but some parts in english

Pablo

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Post by Beaker » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:39 am

One of the reasons for the combustion flame burning out the back is because your Primary zone (this is where fuel is burnt in the combustion chamber) air flow is way too high it should be a few m/sec.
Be very cautious with using vacuum parts as they are not rated for the speeds that turbines require.
Your not going to get any real performance from the vacuum parts but I know that you know, your just having some fun.
Good luck.
To every one on the board have a happy new year.
Beaker

pablo
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Post by pablo » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:09 pm

yep, just having some fun. :)

today i closed the big holes and it started burning in the right place
and i think it even increased the speed (it started to sound as if the revs were higher)
unfortunately my cheap bearings didn't like the lack of lubricating system and high temp.
so i took a new one and removed the cage, to reduce the friction. i'll try this tomorrow.

to everyone, have a nice new year's eve.

Pablo

Zippiot
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Post by Zippiot » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:41 am

I need a better picture of whats goin on inside a centrifugal flow turbine, and I lost my shrecky book...

Does anybody have a good picutre? Or do I need to buy the book again?
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Post by Bounce » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:47 am

Hi
Here's a little picture of Schrecklings FD2. Looks like in a centrifugal-compressor-turbine everything is similar to ''normal'' turbines except the compressor ;))

Regards, Dennis
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Picture of FD2
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