see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

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zono
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see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by zono » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:11 pm

a long time ago a friend of mine and me designed a jet engine without moving parts - a new type of pressure jet running with methanol fuel.

short description:

- methanol is vaporised in a tube coil in propane-preheated combustion chamber
- methanol vapor with about 600°C temp and about 8 - 10 bars pressure expands in a Laval nozzle to a supersonic vapor jet
- this vapor jet compresses air in an injector tube (tube with diffuser)
- compressed stoichiometric air/vapor gas gets into combustion chamber and provides heat for the vaporiser and THRUST !!!

first I add a picture of the engine. more information follows later...
i-Jet.jpg
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by zono » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:16 pm

... and here see a video clip of this I-jet (on rcmovie)

http://www.rcmovie.de/video/f3924f8b480 ... essure-jet
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Viv
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by Viv » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:28 pm

Hi Zono

Since the original invention of the pressure jet by Eugene Gluhareff a number of attempts have been made to come up with a new twist to the basic recipe but unfortunately none of them have worked as well as the original, some by accident of fate or some deliberately by the real inventor to protect his ideas ;-)

The value of the pressure jet is told in Eugene's published technical manual and patent were he talks of the potential energy of the propane fuels pressure to drive the intake system and provide a self starting feature amongst other things, in tip jets thats a big feature! but other than that there are few other advantages over any other type of valveless pulse jet.

Looking at your engine it seems as you say to be a ramjet akin to some of the vapor driven ramjets that have been posted on the ramjet forum before but I cant say its a pressure jet as a pressure jet is a valveless pulse jet as has been proven before.

Viv
Last edited by Viv on Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by Viv » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:29 pm

I forgot to say it will be very limited in performance at altitude as well

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zono
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by zono » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:20 pm

thanks viv,

its a pressure jet, but no valveless pulse jet. in this video you see a poor fuel pump working. so you can here "locomotive" and pulsating sound . but some years ago we had a powerful pump. so we got a straight, continuous combustion. you could hear this as pure "rocket" sound (hiss, fizz, whoosh...). I only wanted to revive our old i-jet for the "days of speed and thunder", but didnt have our good old stuff :(

all of these Gluhareff videos i watched, showed pulsating sound (no real straight or "injector" driven combustion)

the reason, we took methanol instead of propane is the ratio of steam impulse to caloric fuel value. in short words: propane makes more heat, but less air compression

we did many numerical simulation about this...
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by zono » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:25 pm

see here one of our older trials (night action)
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injectorjet.jpg
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by zono » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:44 pm

...and here the functional schematic sketch :
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by Viv » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:50 pm

Hi Zono

Interesting but pressure jets are valveless pulse jets so yes you will see and hear pulsating combustion, they are not ram jets of any kind as has been promoted by a few people over the years, this was a case of simple misdirection to protect the technology in the old days.

The name pressure jet was a marketing term really to differentiate the engine from other pulse jets, a bit of mystic always helps as it did for many years, the engine is really a Logan type design with a simple ejector intake system, for a tip jet it has plenty of advantages over other types.

If you do a USPTO search for pulse jets and pressure jets you will come across Wilson as an inventor and a few others who have very similar types of layout to what you are proposing and working on, also under a variety of fuels, some were I also have a full design with dimensions for some thing like this dating from the 60s, have to do a search and find it for you

You mentioned pump power and how it performed on high power, thats what really concerns me as it takes power to run and thats what Eugene said he was taking advantage of by propane pressure to drive his ejector stack, where does your power come from?

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zono
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thats true - terminology is different

Post by zono » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:12 pm

fine, Viv !

thanks for looking out these old patents (?) for me, I'm very interested. and I agree as your comment for my engine is rather a "selfraising ramjet" , how I mentioned also sometimes before.

its true: pump energy is huge! we used a kerosene gear pump with 500W motor and special self designed pressure-compensated flow-control valve to avoid vaporizer oscillations.

are you interested in our numerical simulations (simple Borland Turbo Pascal program) ?
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by Viv » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:53 pm

Hi Zono

Turbo Pascal! your kidding right?

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zono
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ancient turbo pascal

Post by zono » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:33 am

no, Viv,

its really turbo pascal.

it was over 10 years ago, so we had nothing better available (except GFA Basic ;-)
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by Viv » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:46 pm

Hi Zono

Even ten years ago I think Tp would have had antique status:-) I was learning Pascal while still at technical college but switched more towards basic as that seemed the industry direction at the time, also about that time IBM launched the PC and Borland was born ;-) they always had good coverage in Byte magazine.

For every one else
http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20693
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Pascal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DPp-wMwmQg

Any way we digress, back to the plot ;-)

Viv
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by Mike Everman » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:18 am

hell, the only serious programming I ever did was in LISP. ha
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zono
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ancient code

Post by zono » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:07 am

ok, it was exactly 15 years old. and even then TP was not the hippest prog language.
but I try to find this old code on a dusty 8" floppy disk for you to show you, that one can do quality simulations without CFD
:idea:
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Re: see running new type of pressure jet - methanol fuel

Post by Viv » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:03 pm

Hi Zono

Here a copy of the Wilson thermojet patent, I have a whole load of this type of prior art material from my earlier patent work on a pressure jet burner for industrial heating use, a lot of work has been done on this and variations on the theme of fuel induced ejector intake systems but you must keep in mind they all have basic problems that restrict their use and applications in flight.

On the programming questions why did you decide to use language like pascal rather than a more modern maths application like Mathworks, its pretty hard core decision and full credit for getting a workable result out of it, but not my cup of tea when it comes to working a solution ;-)

Viv
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