jet powerd car

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xxbgxx
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:22 am

leo wrote:try a steam rocket , seems to me its easy to build and cheap.
http://www.blastwavejet.com/rocketcar.htm
wow thanxs man but can you pleas tell me more about steam rockets because i never heard about them
where i can get plans or kits >>>
Last edited by xxbgxx on Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:26 am

patrick35 wrote:hi LUC .

you remember NAPIERVILLE DRAGWAY ?? loll i'm sure you know this field hihihi , at this drag way you can race with everything you want , including , vtt , dirt bike , snow mobil , ect ....
the question i have is are they gonna let you ride on the track with a 100 pound butle of liquide propane ???? hihihi i don't think .i will ask the owner next time .

i have ask the owner of the track about jet car , ( at napierville dragway ) i have ask him if i can race with a non legal frame , he said YES but when the event will begin i will not be allowed to race , i can race bafore the show began ( practice time ) . because they use NHRA rules for the event .

patrick .
then dont tell him you have a 100 p propane
yhea and about drag raceing do they search your car?
becaue i read that there is a kind of drag that you can use anything you want but you should have the basic saftey stuff

i just got these picture from my friend
it looks like some one did it
but with a big engine

http://www.gulfgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14235

luc
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:53 pm

Hi Pat,
patrick35 wrote:hi LUC .

you remember NAPIERVILLE DRAGWAY ?? loll i'm sure you know this field hihihi , at this drag way you can race with everything you want , including , vtt , dirt bike , snow mobil , ect ....
the question i have is are they gonna let you ride on the track with a 100 pound butle of liquide propane ???? hihihi i don't think .i will ask the owner next time .

i have ask the owner of the track about jet car , ( at napierville dragway ) i have ask him if i can race with a non legal frame , he said YES but when the event will begin i will not be allowed to race , i can race bafore the show began ( practice time ) . because they use NHRA rules for the event .

patrick .
Yes, I remember Naperville.

Blew-up a rental car's engine on that trck years ago. We had to push the car out of the raceway in order not to get the rental peoples suspicious when they picked the car up.

But Like I said Pat. It all boils down to demonstrating that you are fast. Then ... THEY will want to see how fast you are.

Do you really thing these guys would stand behind their rules for someone to come later and tell them in their face ... "YOU were scared to loose" ... I don't think so.

If you want to catch big fish, you need to setup your bait well.

Cya Pat,

Luc

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:30 pm

Hi XX,
hi luc
thanx man
and please tell me more about your project dont be afried i wont stell your idea(i cant anyway) :)

and you said you build pressure engine
wht kind engines you build ?and how much power it makes?
because i may buy one from you
and how much thrust a small car need so it make 150mph in the 1/4
Well ... As for our project, when we will have time and spare money, we have a project of building a jet dragster. Not that we want to blow-up records, but it is a damn good publicity when these things goes full blast. The other day, at the Bagotville Airshow, we came to a point where 6 F-18 were starting and warming their engines (That 12 engines running together). When we started our engine, you couldn't hear the F-18 anymore. What do you think happened when over 3000 peoples heard that? ... He he he. So, basically, our jet car will probably have a thrust ratio between 2 and 4 to 1, depending of our car total weigth. My idea calls for two 1000 Lbs. thrust 3rd generation pressure jets.

As for our self, I beleive we are today, the only full time acoustic compression combustion specialized company on this planet (correct me if I am wrong) and we specialize in pressure jets design and manufacturing, for Viv and I are the only one that were able to crack the secret code of these engine and make them exceed their specifications.

We have a fully equipped shop and this include sofware designing, modeling and analysis, machining, welding, sheet metal and DAS equipped test bench.

As for the pressure jet, this is an engine that runs on liquid propane, no moving parts, no maintenance, it is fully autonomous on start-up (No compressed air required) therefore, you start the engine just by initiating ignition and fuel ON, like a gas turbine. The engine we offer can generate from 5 lbs. to 145 lbs. of thrust, with full throttle capabilities and they are very reliable engines.

The first generation pressure jets were invented by M. Eugene Gluhareff, but incorporated few designs flaws that prevented the engine from delivering full thrust. Viv and I took over the concept and brough it to its second generation, which exceed their normal specifications and for which we have a patent pending. Now we are working on the third generation pressure jet, which we beleive will be very close to be the last one. Lately, we have made new findings for these engines that allow us to design and manufacture engines as per custom thrust requirements.

As for your question about how much thrust a small car would need to make 150 mph. I need to know the weigth of the car, how much forward force it needs to start moving forward. Basically, pull on the car using a 100 pound fishscale and tell me at what force it start to move, this force will be your primary resistance force. Also tell me in what distance you want to reach that speed. This calculation is not simple you know. It's a calculation based on Force, resistance, distance, time and acceleration.

So, there you have it XX,

If you want, you can also have a look at our Website at www.glc-inc.ca

Regards,

Luc

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re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:45 pm

Hi Luc,

your right thats why i was asking about the jet engine from the first time because it doesnt need to be rebuild or fixed and its cheeper than a turbo jet and give more power than pulse jet.

yhea i actully searched the net and your the only one adding new stuff in the pressure jet but your web site doesnt have any pictures or prices or warrantys but if your realy can build a engine i need we can manage something

the specification that car will mostly be:

Weight: 2450-2600 lbs (with out the the p engine or its gas tank)
Length:192.5"
Height: 55.1"

with a 1.5L 4CYL 102hp
it can do

0-60mph:8.6 seconds

1/4 mile: 17.2 seconds

Top Speed: 112 mph



and i said befor i dont want to break up numbers or anything i want the car to do 9-10.5 sconds on the 1/4 mile

so how much thrust i need?

and anthor q. i want to ask if we have to jet engine each do 50lbs if we use both of them do we get a 100lbs of thrust ?

this thrust thing is annoying hp is much easier to deal with!

regards,
xxbgxx

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re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:12 pm

dam>>>
i get rid of one probelm i get anthor one
i didnt know its that big

how am gonna put this thing in a car

anyway i still need to know how much thrust i need so i can make a car make a 10 seconds in the 1/4mile
Attachments
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re: jet powerd car

Post by Viv » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:43 pm

well physics says how it works and how big it has to be to work, wishful physics on the other hand is how you want it to work and how big you want it to be.

Never get the two mixed up:-)

Viv

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:03 pm

Hi xxbgxx,
xxbgxx wrote: yhea i actully searched the net and your the only one adding new stuff in the pressure jet but your web site doesnt have any pictures or prices or warrantys but if your realy can build a engine i need we can manage something
.

You're right XX, there are no pictures or prices on our Website and there are some reasons for that.

First, there is no pictures for the simple reasons that a few weeks ago, we were still writting down the patent application and as you know, you can't release or publish any informations or pictures before the patent application is gone. This is done now but we didn't have time to put pictures up yet.

Also, the patent application we have sent, is for the 2nd generation pressure jet, which as of today, are the only ones that will generate full specified thrust. Now and as we know, there are a few numbers of peoples out there, that would love to get their hands on that new engine. We just have to be carefull, for we have a priority date, but we don't have the patent yet. All this is in process right now.

But yes, we can build fully operational presure jets, they are fully warantied and certified and we can also build to custom specifications. Actually, our engines even exceeds know specifications.

Now, todays steel market fluctuation and instability is the only reason why there are no prices on our Website. As you probably know, steel prices change on an every day bases. So, it would be useless for us to put up prices, that would have to be change the following week.

As for the picture you have posted above, this is a 130 lbs. thrust 1st generation pressure jet engine, which are also known not to deliver full thrust, as we have found out and prooven extensivaly.

As I beleive, this engine would not be sufficient to meet your requirements. For this, you need to understand the followings :

When you talk about thrust in pounds, you need to understand that this figure is directly related to acceleration and the realation is "Time" and "Distance".

Now, all jet engines have what we call "Gas velocity" and the engine is always trying to do an equilibrum between its "Gas velocity" speed and the "Object (Your carr) forward speed. These are 2 different things.

So, to clarify all this :

1- If the selected jet engine thrust can not exceed the minimum force required to start moving your carr, the carr will never move (i.e : 50 lbs. minimum force to start moving the carr, while using a 20 lbs. thrust engine).

2- If you select an engine that has a rated thrust of 51 lbs. then you will start moving the carr and accelerate it. But it will take forever to reach maximum speed.

3- If you take an engine that has a rated thrust of 100 lbs. it will take 1/2 of that forever distance and time to reach maximum speed. But it want to reach it and it will do it if you give hime the distance and time to do it.

4- Finally, what establish the maximum forward speed is the engine's exhaust gas velocity. As for our 20 lbs. thrust pressure jet, this engine's exhaust gas have a velocity of 2000 Ft/sec. So, this means that this engine can push forward a given object up to this speed, taking out wind resistance, drag and resistance. But it will do it if you still give it the time and distance.

Basically, what I am trying to tell you is that if you take a 50 tons steel block, but this block is on wheels and only requires a 100 pound push to "Start Moving", then a 130 lbs. thrust engine will move and accelerate it, up to the point air resistance will be greater then 130 lbs total. But it will take forever for that block to reach that 2000 Ft/sec. speed.

So ... I recommend you do as I first requested. Take a scale which is strong enough, attach it to your carr, pull on that scale and watch at what force the carr will START moving. This is the first crutial step before I can start doing calculations.

Regards,

Luc
Last edited by luc on Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:04 pm

Deleeted for pushing the wrong button twice ... he he he.

Sorry,

Luc

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:25 pm

hi luc

ok am gonna do that but it will need some time because now i have to chose the car

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re: jet powerd car

Post by racketmotorman » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:23 pm

Hi xxbgxx
Unless you intend putting at least 2,000 lbs of thrust on your 2000 lb auto you'd be better off forgetting about the idea , thrust is a lousy alternative to hp in a low speed vehicle , and yes, 150mph is low speed when talking about thrust powered vehicles , terrible energy conversion .
You also have to remember that your "wind resistance" will be taking an ever increasing proportion of your thrust , it goes up as the cube of your speed , whereas your rolling resistance is more linear and is really only a small proportion of your power requirement at higher speeds .
If going thrust powered you want the lightest and most streamlined vehicle you can make , because your initial acceleration is terrible compared with an IC engine dropping the clutch in a low gear and you have to "catch up" at the higher speeds further down the track, a thrust vehicle is like taking off in top gear with only one gear .
Cheers
John

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by mk » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:38 pm

racketmotorman wrote:[...] a thrust vehicle is like taking off in top gear with only one gear [...]
...and a worn or lousy clutch.
mk

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by El-Kablooey » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:37 am

racketmotorman wrote:Hi xxbgxx
Unless you intend putting at least 2,000 lbs of thrust on your 2000 lb auto you'd be better off forgetting about the idea , thrust is a lousy alternative to hp in a low speed vehicle , and yes, 150mph is low speed when talking about thrust powered vehicles , terrible energy conversion .
You also have to remember that your "wind resistance" will be taking an ever increasing proportion of your thrust , it goes up as the cube of your speed , whereas your rolling resistance is more linear and is really only a small proportion of your power requirement at higher speeds .
If going thrust powered you want the lightest and most streamlined vehicle you can make , because your initial acceleration is terrible compared with an IC engine dropping the clutch in a low gear and you have to "catch up" at the higher speeds further down the track, a thrust vehicle is like taking off in top gear with only one gear .
Cheers

I think what he is getting at is he wants to supplement his car's engine with a jet, not depend completely on the thrust for propulsion. I have never seen any info on this being done before, but I believe it would take a great strain off of his 4cyl, or another way to look at it would be the 4cyl would give the effect of the vehicle being much lighter than it really is. I have no idea how well it would work, but it would be a very cool thing at any rate! Go for it dude! and be sure to let us know how it works out! Don't let pessimistic people discourage you, I am an incurable optimist and one thing I can tell you for sure is that it is better to try and be somewhat dissapointed than never to try at all. Just do a little reading up on the subject first. Talk to Viv and Luc, I don't believe they will steer you wrong, they seem to be respectable businessmen interested in building a respectable company, not fly-by-night types only interested in making a few quick $$$. If the price is out of your range for the moment, you may want to look into building a couple of large lockwood valveless engines, but be aware that building the engines is only a portion of the work involved. You will probably spend more time and money on your fueling, ignition, and starting peripherals than the engines themselves. But you can still come out for a couple of hundred bucks IF you are really into building things. GOOD LUCK!
On an endless quest in search of a better way.

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re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:40 am

Hi again Guys,

Heyyy ... El-Kablooey, thanks for the good comments. We sure do appreciate it when some peoples see the real purpose our goals.

As for your assumptions of XX using both a jet engine in supplement of the carr piston engine, if you are correct, the use of a jet engine would be useless, especially with a manual transmission, as the jet engine would now have to fight both the air resistance and the piston compression. That would sure help a bitb ut alot of energy or thrust would be lost in that process.

As for what Racketmotorman said above, no one can really go against that also, as using a jet engine just to do 150 mph in a 1/4 mille race is odd. I have to agree that XX should probably be better boosting that piston engine a bit to get those marks.

he is also correct when he make that relation between the acceleration of jet engine to be like starting in 4th gear. The only difference between the two engine, is that the piston engine will give an acceleration peak at the begining and then the acceleration decrease rapidly, where the jet engine start-up acceleration will be slower at the begining, but will continuously increase as speed goes up and until it reach full speed. But if you have a 2 or 3 or 4 to 1 ratio, then your in for both acceleration. I prefer the last one.

But none the less, I wish to remind you all that an F-16 has a thrust ratio of 1 to 1 and reaches its take off speed (150 knots or 172 mph) in less then 3000 feets. Now, a 1/4 mille strip is 1320 feets. So, in order to do the same performances, this carr would probably need to have a thrust to weigth ratio of 2 to 1. But that's only a ruff guess.

Now, if you give me the choice between staying to watch a jet carr race, compared to watch a piston engine carr race, I will probably stay for the jet carr and go for a cold beer when it is time for piston engine. I have seen to much piston engine and they just don't give a hard on anymore.

Now, It is all up to you XX. But if you still decide to go with your jet engine carr, we are with you all the way. We will even help you as much as we can with it.

If you purchase that Honda frame, you can take it complete with the engine. But doing your jet carr, take everything out, spare seat, spare tire, engine ... Everything. The name of the game with jet carrs is "Low weigth and High thrust.

It is a shame your just a few weeks before we take out our 3rd generation pressure jet out. Because if this new engine does 1/2 of what we think and calculated ... Then, we have an engine and Mannnnn .... your in for a hell of a ride.

Regards,

Luc

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by El-Kablooey » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:33 am

Luc wrote:Hi again Guys,

Heyyy ... El-Kablooey, thanks for the good comments. We sure do appreciate it when some peoples see the real purpose our goals.

As for your assumptions of XX using both a jet engine in supplement of the carr piston engine, if you are correct, the use of a jet engine would be useless, especially with a manual transmission, as the jet engine would now have to fight both the air resistance and the piston compression.

Luc

I'm not so sure that is exactly correct, I have no real info to go on, but my instincts tell me something different. The piston engine wishes to rev just as quickly as it does when its in nuetral and you rev it up, its being held back by the the car's momentum and air/rolling resistance. I think the jet thrust would help more than you think, kind of giving the effect of taking off on a downhill incline. The jet shouldn't be fighting the piston engine until it reaches very high rpm. In fact I think they would compliment each other. As you said the piston engine provides low-end power where the jet gives more high end power. the piston engine (even geared especially for this effect) helped along some by the jet would run up a good speed, and as you change into higher gears the jet thrust could gradually become the dominant source of power. This is assuming said piston engine & driveline & jet were optimally matched to work with one another. Its anyones guess how to calculate this, but I think it could be an interesting an worthy effort. Like I said before it would at least be a very cool effect, to pull up to some mustang punk at a traffic light, rev your little 4 banger at him and smile, let him laugh to himself , green light and kick it while firing up your Jet(s) and leave him gawking at your blue-flame jet exhaust and breathing your exhaust fumes. Look out fast-n-furious!
On an endless quest in search of a better way.

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