jet powerd car

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luc
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:45 pm

Hi xxbgxx,
xxbgxx wrote: luc ok i will wait until u make ur 3g of plans and then we can make a deal on one off them you have my email so when you are ready send me
No mean to disapoint you mate, but don't expect the plans for our 3rd generation presure jet to be available for some time, for this new engine will be available only fully assembled.

Again, when our 3rd generation pressure jet will be available, we will gladly release the 2nd generation pressure jet's plans, for these engines will become obsolete for us. The 1st generation plans are available, but we just didn't have the time to finish the unmarked plan sets. But peoples also knows that this 1st generation is a disfunctional one without our modifications.

Now, for your project, we are probably talking about a 1000 Lbs. thrust 3rd generation pressure jet and be aware that such engine price tag will be in the few thousand $$$, for the 2nd generation 130 Lbs. thrust engine is priced around $2,500.00.

I tell you that because I don't want you to wait for nothing or go on wild expectations. These engines being manufactured out of Stainless-Steel 321, don't come cheap you now and as many before you found out lately.

So, we beleive you are best knowing that for it might be one of the reasons you will redirect your project.

I hope I didn't disapoint to much, but this is a reality.

Regards,

Luc

xxbgxx
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re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:34 pm

Hi Luc

No man am not disapointed at all,and i want a fully assembled one not plans but i mean that you should keep me informed so incase i want to buy one but you should do something about the L shape

for now i know every thing i need to know so i will start by building a vavless powerd Kart so i know more about the whole thrust thing
then a steam rocket powerd car for the drag race or P-Jet car

but can you help me with something man
i have a hard time finding anything about steam rocket engines no plans for sale or for free not even a blue print
i know its just a big boiler but where i can find a open vavle that can take all the prussre???

and as i said befor WHEN you make you 3rd_G of P-Jet we can make a deal on 1 1000lbs or 2x500lbs

Regards,
xxbgxx

Viv
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by Viv » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:43 pm

[quote="xxbgxx"]Hi Luc

No man am not disapointed at all,and i want a fully assembled one not plans but i mean that you should keep me informed so incase i want to buy one but you should do something about the L shape

for now i know every thing i need to know so i will start by building a vavless powerd Kart so i know more about the whole thrust thing
then a steam rocket powerd car for the drag race or P-Jet car

but can you help me with something man
i have a hard time finding anything about steam rocket engines no plans for sale or for free not even a blue print
i know its just a big boiler but where i can find a open vavle that can take all the prussre???

and as i said befor WHEN you make you 3rd_G of P-Jet we can make a deal on 1 1000lbs or 2x500lbs

Regards,
xxbgxx[/quote]

You probably wont find plans for a steam rocket as they are not mainstream enough to have generated the interest.

simple to design as its all just maths, the nozzle can be designed using aerorocket software availible for $50, the chamber again is just a standard engineering problem to solve.

The valve is normally a burst plate design, basically a plate with grooves cut in it and a detonator to split it.

Steam rockets look simple but are not easy to design or manufacture, allthough its steam don't forget if you make a mistake this will go off like a few pounds of TNT! and if it doesn't blow you up it scalds you to death:-)

Best of luck;-)

Viv

xxbgxx
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re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:09 pm

hi Viv
thanks alot for helping me you and Luc
hmmm can you tell me where i can by this software
and about the valve do you have a blue print for it or something so i can get one or ask the factory to make me a one

i know its not safe at all but no risks no rewards x)

luc
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:38 pm

Hi xxbgxx,

First of all, you need to know that Viv is my buisness partner. So, this means he also speeks for Conception GLC inc and beleive me man ... This guy knows his sh***. Now, read his last message because he is dead serious when he says "Dead" at the end of his last message. If you plan to play with a steam rocket ... be advise that these things are pretty violent, especially when they go wrong.

Now ... For this last phrase of yours ...
xxbgxx wrote:No man am not disapointed at all,and i want a fully assembled one not plans but i mean that you should keep me informed so incase i want to buy one but you should do something about the L shape
.

What do you mean by "Should do something about the L shape"? We already did. First, we have made the L shape pressure jet (The 2nd generation) fully operational and even exceeded thrust specifications with it. Now, the 3rd generation is our final answer to the 2nd generation (The L shape). So, I don't see what more you would like us to do as everyone here are well aware that our 3rd generation pressure jet will be an "Inline" one.
but can you help me with something man
i have a hard time finding anything about steam rocket engines no plans for sale or for free not even a blue print
i know its just a big boiler but where i can find a open vavle that can take all the prussre???
.

So ... Basically, you want us to participate in your own suicide??? I don't think so. XX, you need to know that if you want to play with steam rockets, these are pretty dangerous, considering there is not much available on the net and the fact that you will have to calculate and design your own nozzle, Squib plate and Squib (The squib plate is the membrane holding the pressure in and the squib is the needle punching the membrane when firering that rocket). If you make a slite mistake, you will ether trow alot of water out, blow-up in pieces or we will find you stamped in a three or trough a house at the end of the run strip.

Thust me XX ... Stick to Pulse jet, pressure jet, gas turbine or piston engine ... And stay away from rockets of any kinds. The last story I heard about a guy who tried what you want try, is the one where someone put a 2500 pound thrust Jetro pack on his car. The last they have seen of him is when they found his carr STAMPED on the side of a hill. The carr went airborn and he went straight into the hill infront of him.

Remember, rockets are either ON or OFF... And if this OFF is to a distance behind something, you will go ON it or through it ... in pieces.

Anyway, please advise us if you decide to proceed with your rocket project ... Viv and I will gladly buy an inssurance policy on your head... He he he.

Now, if you want to use a 1000 lbs. thrust pressure jet, you need to know the following. The 130R pressure jet (130 lbs. of thrust) emptys a liftruck propane bottle in less then 5 minutes (6.6 liters per minute). This means your desired 1000 lbs. thrust pressure jet will probably swallows close to 8 times that figure. So, this engine will probably drink 53 liters/min. and empty that same liftruck bottle in .6 minute (36 seconds). Get ready to includs a few of those bottles in your carr design and consider that each bottles are 53 lbs. when full.

4 bottles would give you apprx. a 2.4 minutes run. That's alot of propane.

Hope all this is more clarifying,

Regards,

Luc

Viv
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by Viv » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:42 pm

[quote="xxbgxx"]hi Viv
thanks alot for helping me you and Luc
hmmm can you tell me where i can by this software
and about the valve do you have a blue print for it or something so i can get one or ask the factory to make me a one

i know its not safe at all but no risks no rewards x)[/quote]

http://www.aerorocket.com/

http://wright.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/ienzl.html

http://www.engapplets.vt.edu/fluids/CDn ... dinfo.html

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/design/aero ... apes.shtml

http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/

http://members.aol.com/ricnakk/index.html

http://www.ukra.org.uk/

The above should get you started, as to a burst plate blueprint no sorry do a search on the physics of burst plates.

What I am saying is if you want a steam rocket you will need to design it yourself, nobody I know off has published plans for a do it yourself version.

a steam rocket is like a solid rocket fueled booster, once you start it you cant turn it off! please remember that any device that stores this much potential energy is in fact a potential bomb! there is no easy cheap fast way to do it, well no easy way that doesn't explode that is:-)

Think of it this way, you want 2000 plus Lbs of thrust for about 4 to 6 seconds to accelerate you to your terminal velocity to complete your 1/4 mile 10 second run.

Now add up all the energy you need for that thrust over that time period that has to be stored in the water of the steam rocket?

Or another interesting way is work out how much fuel a dragster burns doing a sub ten second run, now look up what the energy released from that fuel is, now think about storing all that energy as heat and pressure in the water of your steam rocket!

Now start thinking clearly about an alternative:-)

Telephone conversation with race strip organizer,

Hello! yes! drag strips R us here;-)

Hi I need to bring my dragster to the track the day before I race is that ok, and can I plug it in to a high current elecric socket?


Why?

Cos I need to heat the water in the steam rocket pressure tank to 3000PSI and 600c before i can race

Click! brb brb brb

Viv:-)

luc
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re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:53 pm

Basically xxbgxx,

Stick to PJs, gas turbines or piston engines. This way we will enjoy your presence here much longer, we won't read your name in local new papers and Indianaplolis won't have to rebuild their race track side wall.

You should also ask your self ... "When many peoples tried to break speed records on ground and water, why rockets were never used for this, in their jet carr or boats designs?".

I think now ... You know part of the answer.

Cya,

Luc

xxbgxx
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re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:51 pm

hi all
guys agian it wasnt my idea
try a steam rocket , seems to me its easy to build and cheap.
http://www.blastwavejet.com/rocketcar.htm
its seems the leo want to get rid of me x)
anyway i looked arounde on the net so i find out more about it,i didnt find much about it but what i finded is that they say it gives alot of power (up to 10000lbs or thurst) and its the safest ( http://www.tecaeromex.com/ingles/vapori.html )

so i thought its the anser for all my problems but when you guys said its not safe i will forget about it ,am to younge to die :D

about the fuel yhea i know its burns alot of gas but if you say every bottle last for 36 seconds then one will be enof for one rounde and i will change it after it gets empty

Regerds,
xxbgxx
Last edited by xxbgxx on Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

xxbgxx
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by xxbgxx » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:52 pm

admin delet this sorry posted twice

luc
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by luc » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:38 pm

Hi again xxbgxx,
xxbgxx wrote:about the fuel yhea i know its burns alot of gas but if you say every bottle last for 36 seconds then one will be enof for one rounde and i will change it after it gets empty
Not that quite ... These engine need to be started-up first, then, allowed to go into a "Sonic Lock", then warm-up a bit, then, you will be allowed to put the engine in full power.

The start-up, "Sonic Lock" and warm-up take apprx. 30 sec. to a minute, depending upon each engine's behaviours, then, your in for your ride. So, count a minimum of 2 bottles, maybe 3. Then, you will have to replace all those bottles after each run.

That's more like it.

Cya,

Luc

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re: jet powerd car

Post by mk » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:16 am

Luc wrote:[...] Thust me XX ... Stick to Pulse jet, pressure jet, gas turbine or piston engine ... And stay away from rockets of any kinds. The last story I heard about a guy who tried what you want try, is the one where someone put a 2500 pound thrust Jetro pack on his car. The last they have seen of him is when they found his carr STAMPED on the side of a hill. The carr went airborn and he went straight into the hill infront of him. [...]
Oh, wow!

I heard of this story too.

The folks analysing the guys death wondered why there where some scraches on/in the road surface.
Well, first the guy intended to slow the car down by pushing the brakes, what lead to the black stipes. Of cours the tires did not hold up long, so the wheels scrached the road a bit. Just until the car lifted off. Against the hill.

I would not encourage anybody to try the same.
mk

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by marksteamnz » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:49 pm

Urban Myth and I believe the third? time this has appeared on this forum and been debunked.




mk wrote:
Luc wrote:[...] Thust me XX ... Stick to Pulse jet, pressure jet, gas turbine or piston engine ... And stay away from rockets of any kinds. The last story I heard about a guy who tried what you want try, is the one where someone put a 2500 pound thrust Jetro pack on his car. The last they have seen of him is when they found his carr STAMPED on the side of a hill. The carr went airborn and he went straight into the hill infront of him. [...]
Oh, wow!

I heard of this story too.

The folks analysing the guys death wondered why there where some scraches on/in the road surface.
Well, first the guy intended to slow the car down by pushing the brakes, what lead to the black stipes. Of cours the tires did not hold up long, so the wheels scrached the road a bit. Just until the car lifted off. Against the hill.

I would not encourage anybody to try the same.
Cheers
Mark Stacey
www.cncprototyping.co.nz

Viv
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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by Viv » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:50 pm

[quote="marksteamnz"]Urban Myth and I believe the third? time this has appeared on this forum and been debunked.





[quote="mk"][quote="Luc"][...] Thust me XX ... Stick to Pulse jet, pressure jet, gas turbine or piston engine ... And stay away from rockets of any kinds. The last story I heard about a guy who tried what you want try, is the one where someone put a 2500 pound thrust Jetro pack on his car. The last they have seen of him is when they found his carr STAMPED on the side of a hill. The carr went airborn and he went straight into the hill infront of him. [...]
[/quote]

Oh, wow!

I heard of this story too.

The folks analysing the guys death wondered why there where some scraches on/in the road surface.
Well, first the guy intended to slow the car down by pushing the brakes, what lead to the black stipes. Of cours the tires did not hold up long, so the wheels scrached the road a bit. Just until the car lifted off. Against the hill.

I would [i]not[/i] encourage anybody to try the same.[/quote][/quote]

Ah but what a fun myth:-)

Viv

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re: jet powerd car

Post by mk » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:57 pm

Well, doubt about the details, but the story really happened.

What sets at least two facts true:
1. Guy set up car with some rocket motor(s).
2. Guy died by loosing control somehow when the car reached higher speed values.

Just read a lot, gather information and at least double-check engeneering before assembling a vehicle with any sort of engine and some larger amount of stored energy, of potential or chemical or whatever type.

Just my two cents.
mk

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Re: re: jet powerd car

Post by marksteamnz » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:14 pm

http://www.snopes.com/autos/dream/jato.asp

The only actual solid rocket powered cars were the Rak series in Germany in the 1920's and the one built by Walt Arfons in the 1960's. Both ran sucessfully and i believe no one was hurt. Do you have any info or links.
Rocket cars if a kind of hobby interest of mine




mk wrote:Well, doubt about the details, but the story really happened.

What sets at least two facts true:
1. Guy set up car with some rocket motor(s).
2. Guy died by loosing control somehow when the car reached higher speed values.

.
Cheers
Mark Stacey
www.cncprototyping.co.nz

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