Gluhareff 130R power failure issue still open ... Any Idear?

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Raymond G
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Post by Raymond G » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:20 pm

Patrick,
I believe I can recieve emails of 12 megs. I have a call into my ISP to verify, but they havn't called back yet. Please send if you will.

Thanks,
Raymond

Raymond G
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Post by Raymond G » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:22 pm

Does anyone have any sound recordings or video (w/sound) of a "working" Gluey, ANY model? If we have a recording of a "good" engine (again ANY model) then we can back out what is going on so that we know EXACTLY what to look for in the 130R recordings. By working model, I mean one that develops close to or above rated thrust. So a recording of any of the following Gluhareff Pressure Jet models making rated thrust: G8-2-20, G8-2-40, G8-2-80, G8-2-130, and G8-2-130R.

Regards,
Raymond

luc
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130R Power Failure

Post by luc » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 pm

Hi Raymond,

I have a movie with Eugene imself running a 130. I don't know if it is an "Round Intake" or the other model. Also, I don't know if this things is delivering 130 pnds of thrust ... But Heyyyy ... Why did'nt we think about this one before, I have those vidéos since day one... Damnnn.

I will try to send one tonight at Viv Email, the one that can receive large Email.

Briant idear .... Mannnn .... Stop thinking like that, you will losse all your hairs.

He he he ....

Cya,

Luc

luc
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130R Power Failure

Post by luc » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:49 pm

Hi,

This is Gluey with is 130R sound track. As a matter of fact, it is a 130R. but for some reasons that I don't know of ... I can't post the damn sound tracks.

I will post them tonigh, from my home place. I have 3 sound tracks done by Gluey. One with a 20 pounder, one with a 40 and one with a 130R. Is'nt that great ... Why did'nt we think of that one sooner ... he he he.

Cya,

Luc

patrick35
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message for RAYMOND .

Post by patrick35 » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:16 am

hi RAYMOND .

it's me PATRICK .

ok right now i'M trying to send you the program .
i have call my internet companie because i was unable to send it because it exceed 10 Megs .
but with some help on the phone . . . it will probably work this time .

i hope you can receive it , if you can't , well why not chating on MSN , that way i can DRAG & DROP on the chat box , no limit for transfer .
well let see if you receive it .
have a nice day .
PATRICK .

MESSAGE FOR DAVE .
did you have a e-mail that i can give you some other pics from you running the engine and those from your equipment .
i have 6 megs of pics for you . he he he he .

PATRICK .

Raymond G
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Post by Raymond G » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:46 am

Luc Wrote:
Is'nt that great ... Why did'nt we think of that one sooner ... he he he.
As Homer would say, "Doh!!" I was wondering the same thing myself when the thought came to me.

Patrick Wrote:
ok right now i'M trying to send you the program .
i have call my internet companie because i was unable to send it because it exceed 10 Megs .
but with some help on the phone . . . it will probably work this time .
Thanks Patrick. Hope it works.

Viv,
Any possibility you could post some more jpg's of the recent sound files along with your annotations of what you see.

Regards,
Raymond

Dave
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Questions and Misc Info.

Post by Dave » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:07 pm

Luc

MEASUREMENTS:
Please double check the distance from the lip of the 3rd stage of your engine to the other side of the combustion chamber. In one of your earlier posts you noted that that the distance was 14 inches. According to the plans I have the distance should be 14.55 inches.

PLANS:
I have a set of paper 130/R plans dated 1978 from EMG engineering. If you want to see them just let me know where to send them for you to compare to what you have. You may find the spacers at the end of the 2nd stage to maintain alignment to the 3rd stage interesting.

700 POUND ENGINE:
You mentioned that you have the video Gluey made. Take a look at the section just after he demonstrates the 5 pound engine. On my tape this is where he briefly shows the 700 pound engine. The spot is roughly 27 minutes into the tape. Take special notice of the expanded section of the combustion chamber where the heat exchanger coils are located. If you don’t have that section let me know and I can send the tape along with the plans.

The copy of the Technical Manual I have also shows a picture (a poor one) of the 700 pound engine and says that both the 350 and the 700 were developed in 1984. The revision date of that copy of the manual is 1985.

HEAT EXCHANGER:
From the test data you posted yesterday, and the pictures I saw of the 700 pound engine, it is clear that the standard heat exchanger coils are not quite up to the task. Whenever the volume of fuel exceeds a certain point they can no longer keep up. This appears to happen when the pressure increases much past 165 or the size of the metering inlet goes above 0.78. If you intend to try the heat exchanger modification we discussed, can you add another round to the coil assembly? If a longer assembly will still fit into the combustion chamber, it will increase the total surface area of the heat exchange. Hopefully this will help to keep the nozzle temperature above 1000 degrees under a wider range of operating conditions.

Dave

PS: I did not look carefully at the engine while I was there, but do you have a damper hole drilled in the third stage on just one side or on both?
Last edited by Dave on Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Dave
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Pictures

Post by Dave » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:10 pm

Patrick
I would love to see some more of the pictures from last Friday.
My email address is adlong@adelphia.net
I think my max mailbox size is limited to 10 meg, but I am not sure about the max size on a single transfer. If it does not go the first time maybe you can split the pictures into two smaller groups.
Thanks again for everything.
Dave

luc
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130R Power Failure

Post by luc » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:38 pm

Hi guys,

Dave :
MEASUREMENTS:
Please double check the distance from the lip of the 3rd stage of your engine to the other side of the combustion chamber. In one of your earlier posts you noted that that the distance was 14 inches. According to the plans I have the distance should be 14.55 inches.
Already done Dave. The distance is 14" from center of lips radius to bottom chamber.
PLANS:
I have a set of paper 130/R plans dated 1978 from EMG engineering. If you want to see them just let me know where to send them for you to compare to what you have. You may find the spacers at the end of the 2nd stage to maintain alignment to the 3rd stage interesting.
Don't ask ... Just send the bloody thing ... He he he. As a matter of fact and for the records, in the futur, anyone who want to send me something, send it to : skeet@securenet.net
This is my home address and it is much more reliable and fast.
HEAT EXCHANGER:
From the test data you posted yesterday, and the pictures I saw of the 700 pound engine, it is clear that the standard heat exchanger coils are not quite up to the task. Whenever the volume of fuel exceeds a certain point they can no longer keep up. This appears to happen when the pressure increases much past 165 or the size of the metering inlet goes above 0.78. If you intend to try the heat exchanger modification we discussed, can you add another round to the coil assembly? If a longer assembly will still fit into the combustion chamber, it will increase the total surface area of the heat exchange. Hopefully this will help to keep the nozzle temperature above 1000 degrees under a wider range of operating conditions.
Getting there ... Getting there ... he he he. Give me time bud, give me time... 1000 things to do and my Boss now that keeps asking ... "What are the results, what are the results"
By the way guys ... Dave had a briant idear for new coils configuration. I will make a 3D draft of that and post it later.
PS: I did not look carefully at the engine while I was there, but do you have a damper hole drilled in the third stage on just one side or on both?
1 hole as per Gluey's instructions, both side. Yeaaaa ... I know you did not see that ... You were excited like a 5 years hold that get to play with his first GI-Joe on christmass night.

Okey ... I did'nt get the time to post the Gluey engine run sound tracks. Yesterday I got my new home Modem/Router and the installation took me to much time ... I will do it at noon or tonight.

Also, I have tryed to contact M. Ron Nave, for its "HyperPhysics" CD, but still no reply from him. So ... The request is still ON. Anyone can find me that disk????.

And by the way .... Heeeyyyyyy .... You. The 3 sound brainiacs (Viv, Raymond and Graham ... he he he) Were are the results. Give us something to chew on ... he he he.

Waiting for results,

Cya,

Luc

Viv
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Post by Viv » Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:28 pm

Well here is a picture to be going on with:-)

There is something odd going on and I cant quite put my finger on it yet so it is a case of work in progress lads

the peek marked F3 is bigger and wider than I would suppose at the moment and the one marked F4 is lower and narrower.

F4 is the second stage inlet tube by the way, I just cant help but feel it should have lined up on the F3 one though:-) oh we will come back to that one later.

The first stage inlet tube at 300f resonates at 1052hz, you can see it is at 1010Hz on the specrum and just up from it a big one at 1149 then 1297 then 1431, a nice little progression that is lost on me at the moment:-)

Now the thrid stage diffuser lip to the hole in its side assuming 450f resonates at 2.7khz and you can see it with a nice thick line off to the right of the spectrum, this is what I think is supposed to phase lock the standing wave.

Ok chaps this is a work in progress I am posting it in a hurry so Luc can have a look while we chat on MSN

I will add to it later and or correct it

Viv
"Sometimes the lies you tell are less frightening than the loneliness you might feel if you stopped telling them" Brock Clarke

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Monsieur le commentaire

Dave
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1978 EMG Engineering plans

Post by Dave » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:06 pm

Luc
My plans are in paper form and they are life size(big). Unfortunately, I do not have a scanner large enough to handle them, so i will send them by snail mail. I assume that you will want the plans sent to your place of business, so I will use that address unless you tell me otherwise. Will try to get the paper plans and one of my VHS tapes out to you tomorrow.
Dave
PS: Does the 0.55 inches of difference in 3rd stage length help to explain why the frequencies are off between the 2nd and 3rd stages?

luc
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130R Power Failure

Post by luc » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:08 pm

Hi Dave,
PS: Does the 0.55 inches of difference in 3rd stage length help to explain why the frequencies are off between the 2nd and 3rd stages?
Remenber Dave, the combustion chamber/3rd Stage combination are the master frequency, since it is harder to modify this combination then cut or lenghten a tube. That .55" tell us that it probably is one of the reasons, but we can easely adjust the 1st and 2nd stage to match the chamber/3rd stage combo. Most of all, it tell us the engine probably changed caused by thermal expansion or Patrick, missed it when he assembled it. But Knowing Patrick, I would bet on "The engine thermal expansion and contraction".

As for your Coils design, I am done with the drawing. As far as lenght vs engine available space is concern, it change nothing to it. 1 Double coils (2 coils of 5 turns each, coilled at the same time ... See attach file) or 2 Gluey 5 turns coils mounted as the Gluey concept (Mounted in serie) have the same lenght.

BUT ... And their is a BUT. I personnally, see 2 bigs, mechanical and thermodynamical advantages in that new design. First, it eliminate all those fancy tubes to connect the 2 inlets and outlets together (i.e : less tubing, less welding and better durability).

Second, in the Gluey design, there MUST be a temperature difference between the first coils and the second coils, since their location is different in the chamber.
As you could see when you saw the engine running here, the coils closer to the 3rd stage, get more heat and his last turn are red hot, while the remaining turns and the coil behind it, get less heat and remains dark in coloration. What I see in your coil design, is better heat stability and uniformity, since BOTH coils are progressivaly going toward the the front of the engine at the same time.

As for producing such coils, will only make a new Jig and spin them together... That all. And these 2 will be annealed at 2000 °F in ovens, before they get in the engine. We observed big coils deformation when we anneal the engine using Eugene's method.

I have talk to Viv this morning and the preliminary results indicates that the engine is running cold a bit. I amgetting ready to change the coils now and we will go with .021" SST-321 with my new coil side entrance and exit design. Now, if we incorporate your design into mine? We have to see what the others have to say, considering we are a team.
For my part if it ... I say Yes.

Hooo... By the way ... The others ... He he he. Don't take to long to make your choice. The SST-321 tube is ordered and it will be here soon. I would like to have an agreement before we start the production.

As for the sound tracks of the Gluey engine runs, I have sent them to Viv, since I can't post them here ...!%@#$%?@@?%$$&#$ ... again.

Regards,

Luc
Attachments
Double Coils.zip
(216.68 KiB) Downloaded 316 times

luc
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130R Power Failure

Post by luc » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:17 pm

Okey,

I think I found out why some attachment won't work in some post.
If you click on "Allowed Extensions and Sizes" below, It will tell you what can and what can't.

As for my part ... Damnnnn... I will Zip everything.

Here are the 3 Gluey engine runs sound tracks.

Hope it works this time

Cya,

Luc
Attachments
Gluey 20 Test.zip
(419.13 KiB) Downloaded 204 times
Gluey 40 Test.zip
(852.19 KiB) Downloaded 183 times
Gluey 130R Test.zip
(453.5 KiB) Downloaded 226 times

luc
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130R Power failure

Post by luc » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:19 pm

YEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.............

Go it ....

Now....Go to work ....Guys .... he he he.

Cya,

Luc ...............Out

Viv
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Re: 130R Power Failure

Post by Viv » Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:17 pm

Luc wrote:Hi Dave,
PS: Does the 0.55 inches of difference in 3rd stage length help to explain why the frequencies are off between the 2nd and 3rd stages?
Remenber Dave, the combustion chamber/3rd Stage combination are the master frequency, since it is harder to modify this combination then cut or lenghten a tube. That .55" tell us that it probably is one of the reasons, but we can easely adjust the 1st and 2nd stage to match the chamber/3rd stage combo. Most of all, it tell us the engine probably changed caused by thermal expansion or Patrick, missed it when he assembled it. But Knowing Patrick, I would bet on "The engine thermal expansion and contraction".

As for your Coils design, I am done with the drawing. As far as lenght vs engine available space is concern, it change nothing to it. 1 Double coils (2 coils of 5 turns each, coilled at the same time ... See attach file) or 2 Gluey 5 turns coils mounted as the Gluey concept (Mounted in serie) have the same lenght.

BUT ... And their is a BUT. I personnally, see 2 bigs, mechanical and thermodynamical advantages in that new design. First, it eliminate all those fancy tubes to connect the 2 inlets and outlets together (i.e : less tubing, less welding and better durability).

Second, in the Gluey design, there MUST be a temperature difference between the first coils and the second coils, since their location is different in the chamber.
As you could see when you saw the engine running here, the coils closer to the 3rd stage, get more heat and his last turn are red hot, while the remaining turns and the coil behind it, get less heat and remains dark in coloration. What I see in your coil design, is better heat stability and uniformity, since BOTH coils are progressivaly going toward the the front of the engine at the same time.

As for producing such coils, will only make a new Jig and spin them together... That all. And these 2 will be annealed at 2000 °F in ovens, before they get in the engine. We observed big coils deformation when we anneal the engine using Eugene's method.

I have talk to Viv this morning and the preliminary results indicates that the engine is running cold a bit. I amgetting ready to change the coils now and we will go with .021" SST-321 with my new coil side entrance and exit design. Now, if we incorporate your design into mine? We have to see what the others have to say, considering we are a team.
For my part if it ... I say Yes.

Hooo... By the way ... The others ... He he he. Don't take to long to make your choice. The SST-321 tube is ordered and it will be here soon. I would like to have an agreement before we start the production.

As for the sound tracks of the Gluey engine runs, I have sent them to Viv, since I can't post them here ...!%@#$%?@@?%$$&#$ ... again.

Regards,

Luc
Ok I have to ask the stupid question, why were the coils not done this way to begin with?

It works for me and I have to say I could never find a reason for the original layout.

Viv
"Sometimes the lies you tell are less frightening than the loneliness you might feel if you stopped telling them" Brock Clarke

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