Gluhareff 130R power failure issue still open ... Any Idear?

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Viv
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Post by Viv » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:22 pm

Raymond G wrote:Well,
There goes 24 hours I will never get back. I got really excited about Free CFD. Then I was a little less excited about getting a special program to access it. Then I was no longer excited at all to discover that some bug in the system causes my downloads to reboot the computer every 2-10 megs (for a 175 meg file!) Then I was starting to get a little irritated to find that the 'simple' fix on the eDonkey forum didn't work. Then I was downright pissed that there are Windows XP issues with trying to do this whole business in the first place. And lastly I am possitively irate to discover that after all the work for the last 24 hours, my partial download (at about 32 megs) has now dissappeared from the eDonkey Transfers window!!!!

.......(Dramatic pause after rant)

Just wondering if anyone has been successful at downloading a certain 175 meg .zip file? Or have any input on any of my issues above.

Also wondering if there is enough interest to start a new thread so as to leave this very excellent thread focused on G2-8-130 trouble shooting

Regards,
Raymond
I would imagine the machines with the files on have been hit a bit hard just lately:-)

I was going to wait a while or just get some one who has done with the trauma to mail it me:-)

Viv
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Raymond G
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Post by Raymond G » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:41 pm

I would imagine the machines with the files on have been hit a bit hard just lately:-)
Yes, but that doesn't seem to be the problem. In fact, if a number of people downloaded it recently, and they make the files available to share in eDonkey, then the transfers for the rest of us should go more quickly.
I was going to wait a while or just get some one who has done with the trauma to mail it me:-)
I may have to hope for that too. I have already spend too much time on this problem. I had just been getting ready to make a copper coil for some experimenting when I heard about the CFD, and that (real world )project has been completely stalled now because of these (virtual world) problems.

Raymond

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Post by Raymond G » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:04 am

Well, I decided to give up on the eDonkey s*** for awhile.

So I designed a supersonic nozzle for the G8-2-130. You should see the ACAD 14 file below. It is designed for .16 lbm/sec of propane at 225 psig and 1200 F. The resulting jet will be around 3000 fps...this jet will be very loud. It will generate about 15 lbf of thrust by itself.

Luc,
If you want to do a CFD run on it, I would strongly suggest that you include the 1st stage inducer in your model, as it is entirely probable that such a high velocity jet will not work properly wtih the existing induction system. You should also run a similar CFD analysis of the existing jet and 1st stage inducer to establish a baseline.

Regards,
Raymond
Attachments
G8-2-130 Supersonic Fuel Nozzle 04a.zip
(25.19 KiB) Downloaded 204 times

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Post by Viv » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:33 am

Raymond G wrote:Well, I decided to give up on the eDonkey s*** for awhile.

So I designed a supersonic nozzle for the G8-2-130. You should see the ACAD 14 file below. It is designed for .16 lbm/sec of propane at 225 psig and 1200 F. The resulting jet will be around 3000 fps...this jet will be very loud. It will generate about 15 lbf of thrust by itself.

Luc,
If you want to do a CFD run on it, I would strongly suggest that you include the 1st stage inducer in your model, as it is entirely probable that such a high velocity jet will not work properly wtih the existing induction system. You should also run a similar CFD analysis of the existing jet and 1st stage inducer to establish a baseline.

Regards,
Raymond
Hey thats pretty cool Raymond, I got 17lb of thrust out of my go with the nozzle design program, I was astonished just how much thrust a little bitty nozzle could do, but I bet my mass rate was way out too:-)

That first stack element is the critical one for sure but will there be any problems with shock reflections do you think?

Also what outlet pressure did you work with for your nozzle?

Viv
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Dave
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Supersonic nozzle with 15 - 17 lbs of thrust?

Post by Dave » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:48 am

Raymond and / or Viv
A supersonic nozzle with 15 - 17 lbs of thrust has some real possibilities. In addition to the increased speed and thrust how do the pound per second fuel flow figures compare with those Luc has been working with? Also, would it be possible for you to post a screen shot for those of us who do not have the drawing tools to view your new nozzle design?
Dave

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130R power failure

Post by luc » Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:53 pm

Raymond,

Why did'nt you ask at the first place ... I have all the software. We could link up using messenger or ICQ and let the transfer go.

As for modeling a new Nozzle or a first stage. as I have told you guys, I am very poor with math and I would need some calculation to be done first to have a shape to start with.

So ... mayby you brainiacs could help me there. Post me a shape or dimensions to start with.

Cya,

Luc

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130R power failure

Post by luc » Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:11 pm

Okey Raymond,

I have your Nozzle ... I will model it and run a CFD with the Nozzle and 1 stage.

As for for the CFD, you know how to contact me.

Cya all in a few.

Luc

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Post by Raymond G » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:21 pm

Viv wrote:
Hey thats pretty cool Raymond, I got 17lb of thrust out of my go with the nozzle design program, I was astonished just how much thrust a little bitty nozzle could do, but I bet my mass rate was way out too:-)
The variation is probably because the value of gamma decreases with temp, so I use a value of 1.1 for my calcs, which will decrease exhaust velocity. I'm using a mass flow rate of .16 lbm/sec, as calculated in a previous post.

Dave wrote,
[/quote]Also, would it be possible for you to post a screen shot for those of us who do not have the drawing tools to view your new nozzle design?
As you wish. Please note that this nozzle will almost certainily DECREASE the performance of the G8-2-130 as the induction stack is not tuned for a supersonic fuel jet.
Attachments
G8-2-130 Supersonic Fuel Nozzle.gif
(11.97 KiB) Downloaded 347 times

Raymond G
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Post by Raymond G » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:23 pm

Hellow all,

How come my little GIF file doesn't display in the forum posts? Is there a way to do that?

Regards,
Raymond

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130R power failure

Post by luc » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:55 pm

Hi guys,

Okey...the new supersonic nozzle is ready for simulation. But I have a question before that. Do you brainiacs prefer to have the gas plume in the first stage image, or you need surface data (i.e : What is going in and coming out). Because it is 2 different setup and 2 separate simulation. Mayby we don't need one.

Waiting for answer...

Cya,

Luc ....... Out

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Re: 130R power failure

Post by Viv » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:04 pm

Luc wrote:Hi guys,

Okey...the new supersonic nozzle is ready for simulation. But I have a question before that. Do you brainiacs prefer to have the gas plume in the first stage image, or you need surface data (i.e : What is going in and coming out). Because it is 2 different setup and 2 separate simulation. Mayby we don't need one.

Waiting for answer...

Cya,

Luc ....... Out
We need to know how much and at what rate it is being drawn in.

And the same for the others.

As per the original manuel we need each stage to ingest the correct amount of air to reach 14/1 when it gets to the bottom of the last one.

Viv
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Post by resosys » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:06 pm

Raymond G wrote:How come my little GIF file doesn't display in the forum posts? Is there a way to do that?
It's all my fault... Kenneth added a mod to the forum that keeps large images from causing the whole thread to widen, forcing everyone to scroll back and forth to read posts.

I don't recall if Kenneth ever posted what the maximum width is. I'd try making an image under 800 pixels wide and see if it works.

Chris

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Post by Raymond G » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:35 pm

Luc wrote,
Okey...the new supersonic nozzle is ready for simulation. But I have a question before that. Do you brainiacs prefer to have the gas plume in the first stage image, or you need surface data (i.e : What is going in and coming out). Because it is 2 different setup and 2 separate simulation. Mayby we don't need one.
What we want to see is what is coming out of the downstream end of the the 1st state inducer, in terms of pressure, temp, velocity, and mach number and we want to see the shape of the flow field, so we can determine how well mixed the flow is at that point. Note that the flows both inside AND out side the 1st stage inducer should be modelled.

Also I sent an email to your hotmail address, did you get it? What time (in which time zone) to you usually leave work? Just want to know so I know when to get stuff to you by.

Regards,
Raymond

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130R power failure

Post by luc » Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:03 pm

Shit ... I got your answer to late.

I have already started the simulation and it is almost complete but I think I will miss some details, like the plume shape at the end of stage 1 and what is induce in stage 2.

You have to understand that these simulation take ALOT of time and CPU resources. When my PC calculate, I can't touch it and sometime, simulation take-up to 20, 30 and even 60 hours sometime. That why I rarely do Sims during the day. I let the PC run the simulation during the night or the weekends.

Now, all the next simulations will be done with the nozzle, stage 1 and 2. Using the color image, You will be able to evaluate the nozzle performance but won't have surface data (You need to understand how a CFD work). You will have the data, color image and plume for stage 1 and the same thing with stage 2. But at the end of stage 2, I need to put a plug (Computational surface) that simulate atmospheric conditions. Past that plug, you won't see anything.

Just for your understanding. A CFD program does not know what is outside the nozzle. For him, all the space around your modeled part, is nothing. For example, if you want to test a Gun bullet traveling in mide air, you will need to model a box or a tube, put the bullet in in it, a tell the program that all the sides are atmospheric pressure, the front is atmospheric and air speed is 2800 Ft/s and back is -2800 ft/s. But every thing past that box, is nothing for the software.

So imagine, testing the nozzle, stage 1 and 2. I need to fill the gaps between each component and plug the rear of stage 2. Everything past the plugs and gap filling Caps, you wont see.

If you have questions...just ask, I will be glad to answer ... Resuming simulation.

Luc

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130R power failure

Post by luc » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:05 pm

That an easy one.....

The answer is NO .... They will always remain equal. Welll, considering you dont have 12,000 feet of tubing between. Even more, if the pressure would start to raise, you would them, start to pressurize you tank.

And why Am I absolutly positive about that? ... Simple, I just ran my pressure jet a few minutes ago and I followed my body's request and interest in me installing a pressure gauge at the engine Nozzle. And guess what, even if I already knew it and did it before, Pump pressure and Nozzle pressure were always equal ... ALWAYS and Proven. Even with 30 feet between control valve meter and Nozzle meter.

Gas or Liquid ... In a straight pipe line, you will never get more then what your pump or tank give you. And if you restrict the outlet, then you will get back pressure in your tank.

He he he ...

Cya

Luc .....Out
ydo I

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