mark I am not worthy

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steve
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mark I am not worthy

Post by steve » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:57 pm

I tried to make a jam jar type engine with the bottle (I posted on another thread) and a cap with a 1/4" hole in it. I still don't have any meths but I realized that the fuel used for glow engines (model airplanes) consists mainly of methanol with some nitromethane and oil mixed in, so I used that instead. the first test produced the whistle/woosh described in the bottle rocket post so I widened the hole to 3/8". unfortunately I couldn't get it to light again after that even after changing the fuel. Is the problem the fuel or is the hole too small/big? I'm embarressed to admit that I still havent been able to get a single jam jar to work and consequently I have virtually no idea what I'm doing.
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Mark
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Mark » Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:26 am

Look, there is only A and B to this device. A is buy some methanol from Walmart or an auto store, no ifs, ands, or buts. Just buy it, it's less than a dollar a bottle. Buy the yellow bottle or buy any dry gas product that says methanol on the warning label to remove water from your gas tank. The bottle will be taunt because methanol has quite a bit of vapor pressure. The lid is sealed with a melted plastic/foil to keep moisture out.
B is drill a 7/16ths or so hole in the center of a a pint sized Ball jar or Smuckers jelly jar. That's all there is to it, I guarantee!!!
You only need a tablespoon of fuel and shake the jar with finger over the hole and light the lid. Vim, vam, voom.
Good luck, you just need some straight methanol. That is the secret.
Mark

http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/products.htm

Second product is really dry methanol.

http://highfuelsn.goemerchant7.com/inde ... 1113|81050
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steve
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by steve » Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:39 am

OK, OK, I need methanol and at $1 a bottle I don't really have any excuses not to get it.
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Mark » Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:31 am

If you have a simple jar with a good sealing lid such as a canning jar, Ball or Kerr or something, they have a two piece lid and they work fine, you can even use a quart sized jar, just put a half inch hole in the lid. It helps if you are inside or if the outside air is cool and not humid. After each firing you must remove the lid and let it air out and above all let it cool, for the methanol will evaporate in a hot jar making the starting whoose too weak from being too rich.
After shaking the jar with your finger over the hole, when you remove your finger, you should hear a poof as you release your finger, from the vapor presssure. If not you don't have a good sealing lid.
I really love jam jars, and I hope you feel the same fascination. I've even some very tiny ones that really rev. They are just so simple and a really good demonstration, you can tincture the methanol with a pinch of boric acid powder and it will run a brilliant green in the dark.
Also don't jostle the jar when running or it can flame out. On the other hand, a slow running jar will rev up if gently jiggled as this introduces more fuel I suppose. Only put enough methanol to cover the bottom or else it will slosh and kill the effect as well.
Mark

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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by steve » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:25 pm

Now I understand why it didn't ignite the seccond time I tried it. OK I'm off to try again....
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by steve » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:50 am

I bought some heet and was sucessful in getting two diferent jars to work. BTW the model airplane fuel also worked suprisingly well. My question now is should they hiss loudly before starting to resonate and should the speed of the resonation quickly drop off to about 20 per seccond after 1 second of operation? I think the holes might be a little small but am afraid to enlarge them and potentially ruin the only jars I've ever gotten to work.

one more thing, how do you get the mini logan to run on methanol? (not with the fuel line but with the spray-and-pray method)

I accidently spilled a little methanol on a small cut on my finger and it burns like hell! I guess that means it is good stuff...
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by steve » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:20 am

I think you will like this one:
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Mark
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Mark » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:42 am

Reynst said the little jam jar runs about 20 cycles per second. I don't understand the Logan question. If you spray a little methanol in the tail end of the Logan so as to coat the entire insides, you can then light the tail end with a lighter and it will rev up for a second or two on fumes. I use a finger pump or trigger sprayer to squirt a shot inside the jet.
After the initial hiss of the jam jar the cycling takes over. How long have your jars run? I like to stop mine after 7 seconds or so because the heat will crack them.
If you want to do a short run with the Logan on methanol, here's how I did it. Just spray in some methanol until the tubing is full of fuel and it is topped off so that the fuel level in the silicone line is just inside the jet and also up to or slightly into the copper line. The pressure from combustion pushes the methanol over to the side port where it is ingested.
Mark
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Mark
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Mark » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:22 am

On some occasions, whether due to meager shaking before ignition, or a previously warmed jar, you can sometimes produce a slow start, a meager whoose and an almost death and then the jar can spring to life. The short squat propane canister that I drilled the neck out to widen it does just that, more often than not. I shake it with methanol, it whooses strongly or weakly depending, but in either case it dies down to almost the most faint of sounds and then gradually springs to life for a 30 second run or so.
Mark

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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Mike Everman » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:33 am

Great photo, Steve!
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:58 am

Has anyone tried a conical cap on a jam jar, the more closely to approximate the shape of the Reynst pot?

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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Mike Everman » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:33 am

Yeah, Nick's was. I tried a sugar dispenser that had one, but never got it running; too rough a hole, I botched it.
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Bruno Ogorelec
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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:33 am

Mike Everman wrote:Yeah, Nick's was. I tried a sugar dispenser that had one, but never got it running; too rough a hole, I botched it.
Ah, yes, I forgot about that one. Nick, did you notice any notable difference compared to flat-topped jam jars?

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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by mk » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:25 pm

Bruno wrote:Has anyone tried a conical cap on a jam jar, the more closely to approximate the shape of the Reynst pot?
Yes! Me, too.

I also implemented the inner cone and added a lipfeed. Once started with a bit of ethanol, I could run the steel jar on propane a few minutes, without cooling! A lot of sparks came out of the jar.
But at longer runs the combustor/ jar should be cooled, providing "better running".
mk

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Re: mark I am not worthy

Post by steve » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:49 am

I got a snapple bottle to run well, that's kind of a cone, right?

these things are so much fun! I brought some to work today and was demonstrating them for some of the kids there. It is as much fun to watch their reactions as it is to play with the jars.

BTW, has anyone tried running a lip fed engine on it's side? I think it would be really cool to put one with a tiny gravity feed system on a little pinewood derby car and let it buzz around the school gymnasium.
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