Nord 1500 Griffon Project

Moderator: Mike Everman

Post Reply
Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

not so secret joint venture

Post by Al Belli » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:19 pm

Hi Bruno,

From Jane's 1976 ISBN 0-02-080670-1 :

Al Belli
Attachments
griffon.jpg
griffon.jpg (18.88 KiB) Viewed 10281 times

milisavljevic
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:36 am
Antipspambot question: 125

Post by milisavljevic » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:30 pm

DELETED.
Last edited by milisavljevic on Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

Griffon

Post by Al Belli » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:46 pm

Hi Milisavljevic,

My present finances prevent Me from any rapid advancement on the development of the airframe, but Your generous offer to design the proper pulsejet for this project is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Al Belli

Bruno Ogorelec
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 7:31 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: not so secret joint venture

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:54 pm

Al Belli wrote:Hi Bruno,

From Jane's 1976 ISBN 0-02-080670-1 :

Al Belli
Al, does Jane's say that such funding was against the law at the time? I am really curious about that detail because it seems too silly to have been incidental.

Griffon is such a beautiful machine. Brutal but beautiful.

Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

Legality of funding

Post by Al Belli » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:05 pm

Hi Bruno,

Jane's made no comment about the legality of the funding, but I doubt that any impropriety was involved, since project funding is part of the public domain process.

Al Belli

milisavljevic
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:36 am
Antipspambot question: 125

Post by milisavljevic » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:06 pm

DELETED.
Last edited by milisavljevic on Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

Nord project

Post by Al Belli » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:14 pm

Hi Milisavljevic,

Thanks again for Your interest in this project. I'll keep You posted on any of My major development efforts.

Al Belli

Bruno Ogorelec
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 7:31 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Legality of funding

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:55 pm

Al Belli wrote:Hi Bruno,

Jane's made no comment about the legality of the funding, but I doubt that any impropriety was involved, since project funding is part of the public domain process.

Al Belli
Al, I have it on a very good authority, but it does not really matter. It is just one of the tiny details that looked curious. No big deal. Forget it.

However, since you display trust in the public governance, let me just suggest that the right phrase is "...supposed to be part..."

You forget that governments are never really honest. They are kept as honest as they are (which is not much) only by constant vigilance of concerned citizens.

You also forget that times and attitudes in the 1950s and 60s were quite different from what they are today. Back then, the citizens trusted the government much more than they do today. Covert operations were thus vastly simpler.

Anthony
Posts: 316
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:41 am
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Quebec City, Canada

Re: Legality of funding

Post by Anthony » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:59 am

brunoogorelec wrote:
Al Belli wrote:Hi Bruno,

Jane's made no comment about the legality of the funding, but I doubt that any impropriety was involved, since project funding is part of the public domain process.

Al Belli
Al, I have it on a very good authority, but it does not really matter. It is just one of the tiny details that looked curious. No big deal. Forget it.

However, since you display trust in the public governance, let me just suggest that the right phrase is "...supposed to be part..."

You forget that governments are never really honest. They are kept as honest as they are (which is not much) only by constant vigilance of concerned citizens.

You also forget that times and attitudes in the 1950s and 60s were quite different from what they are today. Back then, the citizens trusted the government much more than they do today. Covert operations were thus vastly simpler.
The Cold War context allowed the goverment to do pretty much everything they wanted if they said it was good for their country. Had positive parts and downsides...
Anthony
Image

Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

Nord 1500 scale model

Post by Al Belli » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:25 pm

Hi Milisavljevic,

I did some rough calculations, and due to wing loading requirements, I settled on 1/6 scale for the airframe.
The engine bay I.D. will be 6", and the available length is 49".( after the intake ellipse to circular transition cone )
It will be lined with 0.011" aluminum sheet for heat shielding.
I am interested in seeing what You can design to fit into the engine bay. ( with some room for cooling airflow )
I have the machines and materials ready for construction of the engine, and look foreward to performing some thrust and fuel consumption tests.

Al Belli

milisavljevic
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:36 am
Antipspambot question: 125

Post by milisavljevic » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:09 pm

DELETED.
Last edited by milisavljevic on Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

Nord ID.

Post by Al Belli » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:21 pm

Hi Milisavljevic,

The scale ID. at 1/6 scale is 9", but I was trying to reserve 1 1/2" per side for airframe structures. I can reduce the reserve to 3/4" if I design using some carbon fiber reinforcement; thus giving an available ID. of
7 1/2". The all-up weight is targeted at 26 pounds with a wing loading of 44 ounces / Sq. Ft. I have also considered the manufacture of an all aluminum ( inner and outer tube ) engine bay attached to a conventionally constructed airframe that will straddle the engine bay. This could bring the ID. up to 8", but I don't know if the added complexity will be worth the major amount of metalforming involved.
Augmentor intake air would be supplied by blow-in doors, that are lightly sprung shut under ambient conditions, and will open at a predetermined pressure differential. The placement of these doors will be in a position that will allow the admission of a maximum amount of airflow.

Thanks,

Al Belli

milisavljevic
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:36 am
Antipspambot question: 125

Post by milisavljevic » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:26 am

DELETED.
Last edited by milisavljevic on Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Al Belli
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm
Antipspambot question: 0
Location: Pennsylvania - USA

Nord 1500-II

Post by Al Belli » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:24 pm

Hi Milisavljevic,

Fuel load is estimated at a maximum of 6 Lb., for an estimated flight time of about 5 Min. At the performance level of this model, 5 Min. should be more than sufficient to challange the pilot! I have a very experienced R/C modeler, that is an excellent pilot, who can handle an aircraft of this performance capability. I look foreward to seeing Your engine design.

Thanks,

Al Belli

milisavljevic
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:36 am
Antipspambot question: 125

Post by milisavljevic » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:58 pm

DELETED.
Last edited by milisavljevic on Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply