Mike's Build Log

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Mark
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:51 pm

Another consideration, a copper colored stainless 2 liter beer growler which is fairly light and no visible seams on the outside. It's just that small problem of finding an easy/clever way to connect a snorkel to it, without having to weld or jump over a fence to make it. Even then the shape may not please the gods.
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Nick
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Nick » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:01 pm

Hi Mark,

if the shape is anything to go by it looks pretty cool :)

My mill is for business - R&D plus some production work its cnc so is likely to be very useful in ways I haven't even thought of yet.

Here it is https://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_770.html

Not my first cnc but certainly the most capable ;-)

Cheers

Nick

Mark
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:58 pm

Wow on the mill. I sort of feel like I'm working with 3rd world capabilities next to that. I console myself with the thought that the things I make are more of an exploration in found art rather than something of useful significance. Along those lines there was a toilet bowl brush holder bought at Bed, Bath, and Beyond years ago that was capped with a piece of 4 inch bar stock lathed down and then tapped with a 3/4 inch NPT pipe thread, just press fit into place, about the extent of my skills. It never sustained so it was put away but last night by leaning it on its side (who would have thought) it started up and sustained turning the mirror finish a dull brown more so on the up side/hot side and it started to singe the towel that was surrounding it in the vise. but not before blasting the aluminum cap and snorkel off necessitating a hose clamp around the cap to hold the albeit tight press fit cap in place. I'll video it later - it's kind of a nice sounding effect like a motorcycle running steady for about 15 seconds. I cupped my hand around the exhaust air and increased the sound and in winter it should run even better. It may have run longer as only 160 ml of fuel was tried and with water cooling ... these things never burn all their fuel when they stop and can't run unless a certain minimum fuel surface area or "lake of fuel" is given.

"Oggi's Stainless Steel Toilet Brush and Holder Set is made of gleaming stainless steel and will add modern chic as well as practicality to your bathroom."
https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/ ... gIES_D_BwE
It's got me wondering how this shape would behave. ha
https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/ ... 1043901883

Presenting the toilet bowl brush holder snorkeler ...
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:01 pm

I should say we had some cool air early this morning, all of 72 F, which is a rarity this time of year so after setting up out in the hot sun I don't know if I'll try this yet so I'm just getting a feel for the presentation, such that it is. The shape makes a pleasing rock-steady sound, I'll say that. When it ran this morning the event later reminded me of a scene from The Flight of the Phoenix, when the engine finally starts, "ha, ha, ha, ha ... you bastard."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACjOvyx5hs#t=3m42s
I have some smaller models now to revisit with renewed interest. Would be fun to get one off the ground in some humble craft - "We make nothing but model airplanes". ha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PrhC_l7RPo#t=42s
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Nick » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:37 pm

I'm pretty sure it was Mike who once said "....there are only two types of object in the world - those that are useful for pulsejets and those which are not" or something like that :D LOL!

Mark
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:15 am

In other news, I took one of the new aluminum 12 ounce paintball tanks that was performing poorly and decided to try something new. Instead of the 3/8 inch diameter snorkel that has worked really well, and being the smallest of the tanks (there's also the 16, 20, and 24 ounce tanks I'm playing with) with which I've gone up as high as I could that being a 3/4 inch diameter snorkel on the 24 ounce tank. It barely leaves much aluminum for the neck with that size hole.

Sometimes even the 20 ounce tank struggles to drive/run on a 1/2 inch snorkel and the same with the 24 ounce and 3/4 inch snorkel in iffy weather so I didn't think the 12 ounce tank had much of a chance but since the neck was all rough inside from crappy molding and it didn't want to run like it should I put it on my big lathe and drilled out a hole for a 1/2 NPT pipe thread and threaded the little guy with my Pratt and Whitney tap. Then I slowly sized up in snorkel lengths, first a 6 inch, then a 7, and lastly an 8 inch snorkel which made the snorkeler 16.5 inches in length. Well, man it's perky!!! I revved it up a little after 10 tonight and I could hear some sound reverberate when it stopped. It only revved for a few seconds and I put it away because that's all I wanted to hear and it's late. I don't know if it will run for any length of time but I"m pretty sure it's my new favorite. The actual diameter of this snorkel is .620 even though it's called a 1/2 inch pipe nipple. The O.D. of the tank is 2.52 inch and it would be nice to know the inside dimension to get an idea of the snorkel to combustion chamber ratio, if you're playing along with the home game. I like how it looks so svelte and unassuming until you light it up, fits well in your hand. Anyway it seems to have more horses under the hood with the larger snorkel. Now to find a shape that's that but light weight. And a better stable way to fuel it perhaps and something fun to put it on.
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Nick » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:18 am

Hi Mark,

I'd like to see a video of that one when you get a chance!

Some pretty extreme rations there so its length to CC dia ratio is 33.5:1 and snorkel dia is 1/5th the CC ?

I'm wondering if the wider longer snorkel is sort of choking down the diameter for the "high speed" exhaust gasses but allowing full dia for the slower colder/denser intake air? almost working like a valve!

Cheers

Nick

Mark
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:58 pm

Well I have to revise my total length, it's 16.5 inches because being tired I didn't consider the snorkel other than it's 8 inches but screwed into the tank shortens it a 1/2 inch. I didn't tap it all the way thinking if it didn't work, I could thread it in deeper. Sometimes the slightest tweak can make an improvement. The snorkel at .62 inch internal dimension and the paintball tank I can't guess how thick the walls are but the outside diameter of 2.52 inch so whatever ratio that is. Say the walls are .125 inch thick then double that and take that off the 2.52 inch diameter. Maybe something around an actual combustion chamber diameter of ~2.2 inches as a wild guess. The adjacent red and white Budweiser bottle has a diameter of 2.32 inches for reference. So its roughly a .62 snorkel to 2.2 paintball combustion chamber arrangement.

Last night when it trying the snorkel sizes starting with 6 inches, the snorkeler just didn't build enough compression and it gives you a very weak whoosh sound. I've come to recognize other strange sounds like when the snorkel is too long or mismatched to the combustion chamber. Sadly I don't have a bunch of snorkels in the larger diameters to just stage up and find the ideal setting. I've found a safe ballpark though of roughly matching the height of the combustion chamber to the snorkel length. It works with my larger tanks too. Longer lengths can get fussy quickly.
But with the 8 inch long 1/2 snorkel it really ramps up, much like the sound of the silver canister snorkeler that I sent Mike with the same diameter snorkel that I can't get to run more than about 6 noisy seconds at best and even that only in winter. And that canister I sent Mike is 3 inches in diameter and only 2/3 as tall as the 12 oz paintball tank.
Pint canister for reference download/file.php?id=14813&mode=view

It would be neat if you could make one out of borosilicate or fused quartz and use it/present it as a barking dog chemistry demonstration, granted it's not a traditional straight tube but it does bark phenomenally well and with fuel it's a bark that keeps on giving. In cool dry air these things go from zero to sixty in the blink of an eye when you light them - methanol can be perky in the right conditions. It's sort of a bang start without the bang. Maybe though a spark-ignited corked exhaust tube bang start would be something to try in order to add a gunshot to the instant starting process presentation.

So I got it to ramp up just now using an 11 inch snorkel which is pushing it in this muggy weather but I'm pretty sure in dry air it will run as least for 15 or 20 seconds like other paintball tanks. Yesterday we got some dry air from the north but this morning it's just not right. I sometimes think some of the YouTubers that would have done better with jam jars don't because they live in humid climes and just gave up after meeting with defeat. Normally, I don't even like to toy with them in summer. After all, my favorite little 4 ounce jam jar won't even start up at all in this humid air never building enough pressure to start the flutter effect! It was Mike and his propeller video that got me interested in experimenting again.
When using the 11 inch snorkel, it comes to mind that I could be missing something that exists but would never find unless you created the conditions for it to work. Often with the longer snorkels, they do this back and forth out of sync confused burp as the flame front travels down the tube and I wonder if putting a spark plug in the combustion chamber and bang starting a snorkeler if you couldn't raise the threshold of what sustains that way, something with a larger, more dynamic combustion process still, but hidden from view because of that requirement. Another thing is how much alike snorkelers are to "musical instruments", susceptible to the surrounding air conditions, having to contend with unique particular proclivities.
"Manufacturers specify a room temperature of 72°F (22°C) as ideal for both tuning and performance. Unfortunately, such temperature conditions are not always possible in performance. Even so, the intonation problems associated with variations in air temperature represent a powerful reason why bands should tune-up on the stage and not be entirely dependent on back-stage tune-ups."
http://www.theconcertband.com/index.php ... emperature

I'll get a video of the new 12 ounce snorkeler design running when some cool weather comes and also I want to get one of the base sounding Gatling gun toilet brush holder engine doing its thing. One thing about the Gatling gun is that it really radiates the heat after a run, just standing near it. I've some other pieces of 1/2 inch tubing that I'm going to drill out and widen to vary the snorkel diameter still more. Just now I drilled out a 5/8 inch hole on the lathe and later some 11/16 maybe. The 5/8 didn't do any better after just trying it. It's amazing how a small change in the weather has exponential effects on the chain reaction of events, how the gas molecules cascade releasing energy. You sure earn your stripes trying to get snork jets to run in hot weather, it takes the training wheels off to be sure.

One time a paintball snorkeler was about to die and an augmenter was put in the exhaust stream and that suddenly pepped it back up which makes me want to try some sort of gizmo to hold augmenters in position for testing but it's really much noisier, as in hurts the ears. The thing I want most is a vacuum system to air out/refresh the jets after a run, something that sucks out the bad air and carries it away so that you don't breathe methanol fumes and it would sure beat a hand pump or bellows hands down.
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Nick » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:27 pm

Hi Mark,

I actually have a borosilicate jar which an "alchemist" friend of mine got made for me earlier this year my plan is to build a few variants around it so we can see what's going on extended runs (if any!).
Something like these V5 and V5.1

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7fm0eao9gm74 ... oLSWa?dl=0

My best running jam jar has an internal duct in it so I thought its worth making it adjustable.

Ill probably print it all to suit the borosilicate jar first, maybe make it in steel later

cheers

Nick

Mark
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:17 pm

Those look like some good ideas. An internal "snorkel" or flow rectifier might also help keep the inflow coherent if you were running a longer jar too, one that needed the flame front to reach farther before breaking up. Also it can partially protect the glass from heat and that one where they used a copper bell inside made the prettiest green colored flame. I was toying with some copper tubing yesterday and noticed the tints of green in a jam jar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIstWmvSkbA

If you have any ideas on how to mount some sort of a lid on this fused quartz test tube and also a length of my quartz tubing has to connect somehow, then I could try the see-through snorkeler. I was mulling over a just a disk of wood wrapped in alumium foil layers soft enough to just hold/press the disk against the top of the test tube and run it briefly. The layers of foil making a gasket of sorts. But this size will kick like the Gatling gun which blasted the 4 inch by 1 inch thick disk of aluminum cap and heavy foot long snorkel off before I took to putting a hose clamp around the canister top region. It's 8 X 30 centimeters. It can take the heat and pressure most likely but it's fragile and will crack if not designed properly. This thought comes to mind.
"I have no idea what's even going to happen".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUKiw75pWy8#t=5m26s
And this part ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUKiw75pWy8#t=12m6s

The fused quartz tubing/snorkel material that I intend to use shown here with a red laser level light shining through it. (19 mm I.D. X 25 mm O.D.) If that doesn't work there's some ~16.5 mm I.D. on hand but it's thinner wall. Small snorkels probably don't have that much pressure to contend with.
download/file.php?id=13694&mode=view
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Nick » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:06 am

Hi Mark,

yes those two were looking to do themselves injury :lol:
WAY too much fuel of course and too small a hole in the top but hey.

I would suggest making 2 plates, one with a hole in the bottom for the round section of the test tube to sit in (not pass through) and another for the lid - use 4 x threaded rods to secure the top plate to the bottom plate and seal with silicon at the top.

Cheers

Nick

Mark
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:06 pm

Well having tried a lot of things, you might not be surprised to know I've done the same thing years ago with those half-gallon canning jars, even with what I thought was a reasonably sized hole the lid blasted off. In cool weather the entire volume of methanol vapor goes off in an instant, sort of like a bomb. But after the first blast I didn't do it again, unlike that brave overachiever that forged on to do it two more times. Here's a half gallon jar I used for a simple pinwheel effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJuT5QtU54Q

Another time using a gallon jug that held apple cider with a fairly wide hole in the neck made a deafening blast when I was sprinkling the very tiniest little particles/dust of platinum catalyst into the jug containing methanol vapor. They instantly heat up going from room temperature to red hot. You could see 5 or 6 little ash-like particles glowing as they softly floated down into the jug and then bang. The jug was unharmed but the blast was impressive. I wasn't expecting an explosion because of the relatively huge hole (~1.5 inches) for the gases to escape but I think because it was initiated from inside the jug instead of from the top the flame front goes faster. I mean look at the size hole I used on the half gallon jar and then compare that to a ~1.5 inch hole and only twice the volume. The jug I used is exactly 6 inches in diameter with a ~1.5 inch hole and a 2.5 inch neck. My 2.5 gallon/8 inch diameter piglet snorkelers never went bang even with the typical foot long snorkels of 1 inch diameter or short stubby snorkels or 2.5 inch diameter attempted snorkels which didn't sustain. It's interesting how the point of initiation can sometimes bring about an "exponential cascade" set of rules.

The gallon jug would make a good plot against a black background in dim light as the particles of platinum catalyst drift slowly down into the jug like little fireflies drifting about and then suddenly comes the deafening flash-bang denouement. The other day I was toying with a high voltage module (the one hooked to the CM-6 spark plug) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d33_Fhgy5Dg
and with a long safe distance/length of wire thought it might be interesting to initiate the jug with a spark from a twin wire inserted into the jug centered midway. A high speed camera would be nice to capture the flame front. I wonder too if multiple ignition points say from the platinum particles would produce an even faster effect ...
Sometimes a long length of twin wire doesn't carry high voltage, it seems to either short out along the way or bleed off the energy maybe not being high voltage wire I don't know. My gas grill piezo sparker suffered from that. I tried that ignition module in the video on a 10 foot length of twin wire and it didn't work but a three foot length did for some reason.
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:35 pm

Nick wrote:I'm pretty sure it was Mike who once said "....there are only two types of object in the world - those that are useful for pulsejets and those which are not" or something like that :D LOL!
It's pretty bad when you see an elderly lady walking in a store with tubing in her nose and you glance to see what the portable oxygen tank looks like.
https://applied-inc.com/oxygen-cylinder-sizes-and-info
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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Nick » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:47 pm

I know I shouldn't laugh but ... :lol:

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Re: Mike's Build Log

Post by Mark » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:47 pm

So I got some yellow slow flyer 15 inch reduction series propellers that might make for a fun spinning 2 liter bottle craft just to see what it would do. Good practice for any jam jar jet flying craft. The props are what's called a 15 X 7.5 inch prop, the pitch 7.5 inch. I had bought some 12 inch props but decided they would be good for something smaller than this imagined 2 liter bottle Hero's Whoosh Bottle Spinner.
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