Lady Anne Boleyn Rev07 Full Size Plan Drawings

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ed knesl
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Lady Ann ...

Post by ed knesl » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:20 am

Yes, Larry,

You are correct, forming the intake D shape was hard, welding was helped by spots to hold it in correct place before TIG. Probanly most
difficult were the D corners to weld properly without burn through or building a big plop of metal there.
The hood I formed out of paper ( your pattern came few hours later ) and
was relatively easy to do, Again I spot welded the front and side edges, with only about 1/16" overlap.

Generaly the spot welding is the way to go, it is fast, no burn through, no heat distortion. I TIG only when it would be impossible to spot weld.
Try that !

The shape of the engine looks so good and natural, that without any doubts it will run as good as it looks.

However, I wouldn't say that it was any more difficult to build that typical chinese type engine. The result is worth of any extra effort.
I predict that this unit is going to be a bench mark for valveless type
engines for a long time. It has no obvious flaws and it is clean with absolutely no obstacles in the air flow. Looking through the tail pipe, makes you smile !

Great stuff, Larry!

Now, liquid fueling is an order of the day.
...Nobody is right, nobody is wrong...

Irvine.J
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Lady anne

Post by Irvine.J » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:12 am

Ed wrote:
The shape of the engine looks so good and natural, that without any doubts it will run as good as it looks.
Yep, I love it when an engine shows a bit of leg :D
Ed wrote:
I predict that this unit is going to be a bench mark for valveless type
engines for a long time.
That a massive prediction, best seeing if it actually runs first.
Ed wrote:
Now, liquid fueling is an order of the day.
Seriously its best just to get it running on propane first...rather then spend hours setting up liquid fueling on an engine that may not run. Historically they are incredibly finicky even with propane, that would be prudent wouldn't you say?

Ed, take my advise and run propane on a double D injector 1/2 way down the intake...
The reason being its got the best chance of working straight off the bat, I know this because of the the amount of time I spent on these engines.

Sure, you may get it running on a straight tube, even if you do the Double D is still the best choice when it comes to propane fueling any small engine including the HPX and chinese, IMO. (in my opinion) It gives relatively low velocity flow with excellent turbulent mixing right from the injector tip. It may alleviate a whole bunch of hassle trying to get the pretty lady roaring.

To note I still want to see some video of this because I really want to see the effect the intake flow has blowing over the choke/reflector cone join.

Good luck with this one Ed, seriously just try the propane first you could do it right away to see if she'll run, before investing a lot of time to properly tune your liquid fuel location and all the other frustrating liquid fueling issues.

Another thing, Larry I see you now have your intake at 115mm, Excellent.
I've noticed a marked increase in operating performance especially on the larger engines simply by bringing back the intake a little. It promotes a much better stall in the airflow from the induction pipe and really turns round on itself to fill the CC nicely. I have a video of this when blowing into one of my engines with a cigarette before welding the dome cap on, covered by cling wrap... "CFD" (Cigarette Fluid dynamics LOL!) I'll post it soon or email it to you.

Look forward to seeing her running soon.
Best of luck
Last edited by Irvine.J on Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Mike Everman » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:28 pm

Just so you know, James, Ed is nowhere near a newbie to this, but good points all.

When you going to your other house, Ed? Maybe you'd invite me to drive on over?
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larry cottrill
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Re: Lady Anne

Post by larry cottrill » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:28 pm

Ed & James -
Irvine.J wrote:Ed wrote:
I predict that this unit is going to be a bench mark for valveless type
engines for a long time.
That's a massive prediction, best seeing if it actually runs first.
Yes, it is. It will run, though ;-)
Ed wrote:
Now, liquid fueling is an order of the day.
Seriously its best just to get it running on propane first...rather then spend hours setting up liquid fueling on an engine that may not run. Historically they are incredibly finicky even with propane, that would be prudent wouldn't you say?
The one thing you get with vapor fuel is you're testing a new engine design, not a new carburetor design - a much easier starting point to work from. So I'm with James on this point.
Ed, take my advise and run propane on a double D injector 1/2 way down the intake...
I've been able to show with UFLOW flask analysis that the halfway point is almost the ideal location for carburetion, based on the behaviour of a slight pinch moved forward and rearward along the pipe. What you get is an almost ideal superimposition of low static pressure on high inward velocity throughout almost the entire intake half of the cycle, with very little positive pressure during the outflow half. Points a little nearer to the chamber are also pretty good. The slight pinch was just used as a simulation of a small smooth constriction, like a fuel pipe running across the intake (i.e. a "spray bar") forming a highly localized high speed "throat".
Another thing, Larry I see you now have your intake at 115mm, Excellent. I've noticed a marked increase in operating performance especially on the larger engines simply by bringing back the intake a little.
I've never been ashamed to learn important details picked up by my highly paid testing staff ;-)
It promotes a much better stall in the airflow from the induction pipe and really turns round on itself to fill the CC nicely. I have a video of this when blowing into one of my engines with a cigarette before welding the dome cap on, covered by cling wrap... "CFD" (Cigarette Fluid dynamics LOL!) I'll post it soon or email it to you.
Smoke is a really good method to look at airflow. Sometime I'd like to see a video of smoke from an incense stick or some such around the pulsejet intake while she runs. Yes, post that or YouTube it - it would be interesting to a lot of people, I think.

L Cottrill
Last edited by larry cottrill on Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pgup
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Re: Lady anne

Post by pgup » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:41 pm

Irvine.J wrote: The reason being its got the best chance of working straight off the bat, I know this because of the the amount of time I spent on these engines.
Then have you measured the thrust of your engine http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb2/viewto ... &highlight ?

How much did it put out?

James D
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Lady Anne

Post by James D » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:42 pm

Good work Larry & Ed,
I'm really looking forward to seeing these run, and I'm sure they will run, the last Lady Anne I put together had a single 26mm intake so it will be good to see how the performance compares.
I only ran mine briefly but I did get an idea of thrust and it'll be interesting to see if this new intake geometry proves to be superior, however I fear Larry might be slightly disappointed by the thrust produced.

Something to bear in mind when running these, the minimum thrust level might be as much as 1.5lbs and will probably need quite a lot of air to start compared to a normal FWE.

I'll hopefully do more testing with my Lady Anne builds at some point, just as soon as find somewhere else to run them.

James D

larry cottrill
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Finished Plain Steel Prototype & Bukowsky Mount

Post by larry cottrill » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:47 pm

Here's my finished mild steel prototype and a couple closeups of the front engine mount for static running. The 'Bukowsky mount' is made from a galvanized steel 2x4 hanger from Menards, with a flat washer welded on. The welds are quite substantial, though so small the photos hardly show them.

I recently wrecked an old bathroom cabinet and got some nice hardwood strips and planks, Maple I think. One of these will be used as the main mounting base plate for this engine. The engine isn't really QUITE finished - what's missing are the four little 'thrash mount' lugs at the tail end. But, she could be static run as soon as the base and heat shield are ready.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the fuel tube is 3/16 inch OD steel brake line with lemniscate spout, shown here with spout positioned at the 50 percent point in the intake pipe. A short piece ot 1/4 inch brake line is welded on to mount the 1/4-inch compression fitting shown.

L Cottrill
Attachments
Bukowsky_mount_right_front_small.jpg
Bukowsky mount right front view. Note ample clearance around the CM-6 spark plug. Photo Copyright 2007 Larry Cottrill
Bukowsky_mount_right_front_small.jpg (44.83 KiB) Viewed 4948 times
Bukowsky_mount_rear_small.jpg
Bukowsky mount bottom rear view. Welds between washer and side posts are small but more than adequate. Photo Copyright 2007 Larry Cottrill
Bukowsky_mount_rear_small.jpg (55.13 KiB) Viewed 4948 times
Lady_Anne_Rev07_fuel_air_piping_small.jpg
Detail rear view of the fuel and starting air piping - fuel pipe (with brass fitting) appears beneath the air pipe in this view. Photo Copyright 2007 Larry Cottrill
Lady_Anne_Rev07_fuel_air_piping_small.jpg (68.35 KiB) Viewed 4948 times
Lady_Anne_Rev07_front_end_small.jpg
Lady Anne Boleyn Rev07 front end closeup, showing the completed welding around the intake fairing. The nozzled end of the starting air tube can be seen just aft of the intake flare. Photo Copyright 2007 Larry Cottrill
Lady_Anne_Rev07_front_end_small.jpg (65.52 KiB) Viewed 4948 times
Lady_Anne_Rev07_finished_small.jpg
Lady Anne Boleyn Rev07 mild steel prototype, all finished except for the absence of the four 'thrash mount' lugs around the tail end. Photo Copyright 2007 Larry Cottrill
Lady_Anne_Rev07_finished_small.jpg (46.84 KiB) Viewed 4949 times

Jim Berquist
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mount

Post by Jim Berquist » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:04 pm

I like the mount Idea!


Larry? What is the advantage with the permanent air line?

Jim
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larry cottrill
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Re: mount

Post by larry cottrill » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:27 pm

berquistj@peoplepc.com wrote:I like the mount Idea!

It's just a fancy version of Steve Bukowsky's original - away back in 2004 for his prototype build of the very first Short Lady. I think the carpentry hanger cost about $0.79 US and the washer was one that was just lying around. After welding, I just used a round file to enlarge the hole for a perfect fit around the plug thread. There's a fair amount of work cutting away the steel you don't need from the hanger bracket, though.
What is the advantage with the permanent air line?
It is always perfectly aimed "right down the chute" - your only variable is the air pressure - so once you determine the ideal value for that, you get sure starts every time by duplicating that pressure setting. Of course, you're still allowed some "technique" in how you "throttle" your air valve, if that seems useful.

In this design, it also forms a "mounting rail" along which the fuel line can be slid back and forth for depth adjustment.

L Cottrill

steve
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Post by steve » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:13 pm

Hahahahha!
I see I haven't been completely forgotten around here-
thanks for that larry, that made my day
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Jim Berquist
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fuel rail...

Post by Jim Berquist » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:33 am

As I have been so busy unemployed and all, I have not had time to start up the Advanced Chines that Eric sold to Adam that I purchased. I am thinking about setting it up like that with the fuel rail and constant air set up. I could even use the nose mount and a craddle just for test.

Today I transitioned my 7 year old son from Red Rider to Henry arms mini bolt with Colibri .22 ammo.... Like going from BB gun to high power air rifle......

Good fun. Next week it's the Waskally Wabbit and the real Stuff!!!


Jim
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Irvine.J
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Lady anne

Post by Irvine.J » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:37 am

Beautiful work larry. She really is a cracker isn't she?! I'd never seen these stands before, thanks for bringing them to our attention. So tell me... did you put a double D in there :D hehehe? I hope so! Turns out I've had alot of success recently on starting all my engines on a rosco jector , maybe a little easier then trying to play with the fuel and air as it gives you a free hand, get her running then just turn up the fuel :D Anyway, it would be almost criminal to not use that elegant starting system though! Verrrry pretty sir. I did get your email, but you left out your address.

When you build an engine you do go all out, and she is really pretty indeed, just want to wish you the best of luck with this one, I look forward to it!
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Mike Everman
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Post by Mike Everman » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:56 am

I got to dig up a fuel setup to show you, James...
Here it is. Three mini Rosscos and a Bete nozzle for liquid in the center. The motor I made this for didn't work with any fueling (a few lessons learned there), so I'll have to crunch this down to work in a smaller intake.

Sorry about the momentary thread hijack, Larry, I just really like the permanent Rosscojector idea.

Note to beginners: Believe it. Done right, one can skip starting air entirely!

Oh, yeah, sweet motor, Larry. Can't wait to see it go!
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Irvine.J
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Thread Hijack :D

Post by Irvine.J » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:26 am

Sorry Larry but I just have to indulge Mike here...

THAT IS THE MOST EVIL COOLEST EVIL LOOKING INJECTOR SETUP I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!! LMFAO Mike you are a cracker, do you have a name for it? The "Gouger" or something LOL!

You know there is only 1 engine I can't transition of roscojector fuel to its main fuel line, and that is the standard chinese (YET!). It wants maximum pinch and then you can't grease it up from there. Using two might just fix that, i'll give it a go. LIke mike said if your new here, you'll find if you try a rosco it does take a little practice, but now, theres no turning back :D I can now turn the tank of my air compressor into a CC of a much extremely huge combustion chamber. :twisted:
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Post by Mike Everman » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:58 am

Thanks, James.

Niether Rossco or I could get a (Laird) Chinese to start on R'jector. Something about it... I now have a Chinese I got from Luc, I'll have to try that one as well.
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