50 lbF 'Lady Astor' Not For Beginners

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:20 am

Yea Baby...love the stumpy one...and I did ask...but only for the LadyAstor....Go Girl....LOL...Mine arn't as pretty but.....Dam that is just the way things are we are on differnt tangents....All the best and you are way ahead of me for research I am into the fun part..

Hey i just built a set of expansion chambers for a fellow employee (bike racer TZR250)and he ended up in 2nd place in a regional race....on the east coast of Canada......power to the people.....
and pics of the witch....(sorry L)
Vern

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:23 am

Dam I forgot to mention......Love the hardwood floor......

Irvine.J · Post by **Irvine.J** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:42 am

Hahaha yeah i like that floor too! Congrats to your friend coming second on that regional race. Bike racing is really a sport for some really special individuals, I have nothing but admiration for their ability to turn off the brains "I could die now" protection systems and go for it. Kudos to him. That is a big ass woman no doubt about it

Goodluck. Any Idea when you'll be able to fire her up?

Irvine.J · Post by **Irvine.J** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:48 am

I should also say before you put your intakes on check the angle of entry isn't going to hit the front dome. I found that the intakes needed to be moved back considerably for the engines to even run now that the angle of the CC is so high. I basically just went along with a ruler to find a center point that was far enough back so it hits the bottom of the CC first. Perhaps some side on shots before cutting the hole?

larry cottrill · Post by **larry cottrill** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:47 am

Vermin wrote:Hi Larry.... et al
I have some 2" ID tubing available and i realize that the overall area will be slightly smaller than with the 3 intakes at 1.75.... (maybe the velocity will assist with mixing?) Do I have to change any of the dimensions as far as length of the stacks or positioning? Thanks
Vern

Vern -

You will be at 87% of the design area, which is pretty close, really. I would guess you can go with the design length - if I'm wrong, you would just need to shorten them a little to bring it in.

L Cottrill

larry cottrill · Post by **larry cottrill** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:09 pm

Vern, you're going to need big fuel lines too - probably 3/8 inch OD tubing (maybe 8mm or so ID). You already know how to manifold them together nicely for well-distributed flow.

Also, be sure you have a good quick-cutoff valve where you can hit it quickly - once you achieve rich extinction for this babe, you are going to have a LOT of propane flowing!

L Cottrill

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:18 pm

Thanks Larry...
hopefully by the end of the wknd there will be photographic evidence......I am off to Alert (the end of dirt in northern Canada.... it's all water from there to Russia) for a week on Monday....... and I would like to have Her running before that, i will sketch the intakes for proper angle prior to fitting as James has suggested....it's all fun.
Vern

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:17 pm

New intake configuration with 2 - 2" ducts.
V

larry cottrill · Post by **larry cottrill** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:15 pm

Vern, that looks good to me. Let 'er rip!

L Cottrill

larry cottrill · Post by **larry cottrill** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:55 pm

I revised the thrash mount design, simplifying the connection to whatever you want to use to stabilize the rear end. Ideal thrash mounts will be two simple tubular struts at right angles to each other, bolted up to the engine in such a way that the engine can move longitudinally, both for vibration and thermal expansion. This new design (Rev 04) makes such a connection extremely easy. None of the basic dimensions of the engine have changed; just this mounting detail.

Yes, I WILL provide some large scale drawings of all the engine mounts. Stay tuned ...

L Cottrill

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:12 am

Well folks the first 2 attemps were not succesfull...I believe due to fueling issues. I only have 1/4" tubing available at this time and I have tried 2 injector styles and many depth positions, it will run but only with augmented air (dam loud).

There also may be a fuel flow issue with the LPG tank, the newer designs have a flow limiting valve in them and I may have to look at liquid withdrawl into an evaporator system of some type....sugestions would be apriciated. I will be away for a week so i will attempt any sugestions upon my return...Thanks Folks.

Pics of the product, amzingly light when built from 20G mild.
Vern

GRIM · Post by **GRIM** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:08 pm

Great job Vern, that lady is going to howl !

Those 1/4 tubes do look kinda skinny dont they?
I am having similar problems with gas cylinders , but for other reasons.

There is another type of gas cylinder available, the ones they use on fork lift trucks (hysters) , they are designed for vapor or liquid extraction just by rotating them 180 degrees , they do however require a special fitting for the valve , and you get them re filled at the places where they re fuel gas powered vehicles , not sure how you are fixed on that one.
Im going to try to round one up this week

as for vaporizing the liquid gas , take a look at the jims 3lb thread , a small jacket around the cc would likely be all thats needed ,
you can probably get the stainless wool at the supermarket, its sold in little packs to clean kitchen pots and looks rather like swarf from a lathe

good luck

Irvine.J · Post by **Irvine.J** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:47 pm

There is nothing wrong with the two fuel injectors, that more then enough gas to get it running. I know your using double D's aren't you verninator?!
If it happens to have a flow limiter thats bad news, do your best to "Swap n go" for an older model.

I think you should go with some sliding intakes, I'm pretty much positive its just an intake tuning issue, if the intakes themselves aren't too far forward. I had envisioned having those intakes another 1/2 to full intake D back towards the choke. Perhaps I should have been more clear, the gas coming in through the intake tends to "Stick" to the front side or longest side of the elbow. There is more friction on it, and it will tend to roll out towards the CC dome considerably. I wouldn't be surprised if where they are now the incoming fuel/air mix is slamming right onto your cc dome.

I would play simply with your intakes lengths first. If that doesn't lock her in, move both intakes back and try again. I think you'd actually be able to get it running on one of those intakes, but since you have two, make the sliding intakes internal, they look quite large in the photo. There is plenty of fuel to get that engine at least running out of a 1/4 inch tube, just double D it so you get some better mixing. the DD doesn't restrict fuel flow at all. Keep going on it!

larry cottrill · Post by **larry cottrill** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:07 pm

Vern, it looks just great! yes, I think the tank valve restriction is likely the problem, or at least certainly isn't helping things any.

For anyone who might be interested, here's the detail drawing of what I had in mind for the forward thrust mount lugs. Unfortunately, I haven't a clue as to how to design it with the right spring loading, so the spring pairs will have to be selected experimentally - likewise with compressing them properly. You just have to play around with it, adjusting for the minimum vibration getting through to the solid mount. I hope the drawing is more-or-less self-explanatory; if something's unclear, just ask.

All comments and criticisms welcome.

L Cottrill

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:27 am

I tried again this eve with just one intake and the same type of injector as the LJG....no luck so far but better results...will keep things posted.
v

www.pulse-jets.com

50 lbF 'Lady Astor' Not For Beginners

bike race

astor

Bigger But Fewer

Fuel Lines

New Intakes (2)

Revised Thrash Mounts

Fuel

Forward Engine Mount Detail