As I understand it, you can take a fruit or vegetable, mash it up, put it in a container with with a tube coming out of it placed into water to let CO2 bubble out but no O2 in, let it ferment for 2-3weeks, then distill it and get ethanol and a little bit of methanol. Is this correct?
Also, if you add sugar and yeast it will ferment faster?
Make your own ethanol/methanol?
Moderator: Mike Everman
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leo
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re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
You probably only get ethanol, I made wine in the past with al kind off fruits, and never heard off getting the toxic methanol.
You can get more alcohol faster when you ad yeast and sugar.
You can get more alcohol faster when you ad yeast and sugar.
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Irvine.J
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Make your own ethanol- Save this info now!
People, this is by far the easiest method of making biodiesel I have seen yet, however because of a so called (Copywright BS) infrigment its about to be deleted, so save it now! I will post it also after this text, but its pretty big. I am willing to try this technique, and if anyone else is willing let me know so we can compare notes... it says here you can use fresh oil for best results, however i'll make batches (1 litre of used canola and unused, so if you want to go olive or peanut tell me and so we dont use the same.)
I have heaps of stored used canola and unused. Can anyone see any inherent dangers with REDOX reaction causing detonation during this operation, I will try to mix with heaps of pressure allowance, possibly squeezing the bottle so its a slight vacuum before mixing the NaOH so it has plenty of room to expand. Any advise would be greatly appreciated... its going straight into my ramjet when complete.
Link is here but will be delete very shortly.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_make_biodiesel
I suggest you save it for future refrence... I'm really keen on running Pj's on bio diesel, i think they should make the ultimate relationship if it works :D Goodluck.
==========================================
The World Famous Dr Pepper Technique (Pat Pend)
This is the easiest most fool proof method for making your first homebrewed few mini-batches of biodiesel. As an added bonus, the only "specialized" equipment required is a thermometer, accurate scales to measure out NaOH (in a pinch a metric teaspoon measure will work), and something to measure out 250 ml of methanol and 1 litre of vegetable oil.
Contents [hide]
1 CAUTION
2 Equipment
3 Ingredients
4 The technique
5 Making the methoxide
6 Making the Biodiesel
7 See also
8 External links
[edit]
CAUTION
If you are new to Biodiesel making, a few words of caution are in order:
You will be working with dangerous chemicals. Therefore you must use common-sense.
Methanol is a flammable liquid that can be absorbed through skin, by inhalation, or consumption. It can cause blindness and death if care is not taken. be careful not to inhale any vapors. Cartridge-based respirators will not filter out methanol.
Sodium hydroxide (Caustic soda, NaOH, lye) can cause severe burns and death. Long-sleeve shirt, full shoes and trousers are recommended, no shorts or sandals.
Wear chemical proof gloves, apron, and eye protection.
Always have running water available to wash off any splashes but be careful not to allow any water into any steps of this procedure.
Methanol boils at 65 °C. You must mix only when the oil is below 60 °C.
Now that I have your attention, just realize that Methanol is the fuel used in many race cars, and can be obtained from a dealer that sells racing fuels. In the USA methanol is available in small quantities as HEET brand fuel line antifreeze (Yellow bottle)
Lye is an every-day drain cleaner.
Both are freely available in most large shopping centres and are safe when used properly.
Before you make your first batch of Biodiesel you should read Mike Pelly's excellent article about biodiesel. (see external links at the bottom of the page).
Once again: Cartridge-based respirators will not filter out methanol.
[edit]
Equipment
1-2 litre (1.9 in USA) dry Dr Pepper bottle, with top, in sound, airtight condition.
1-thermometer good to 120 ºC, often candy thermometers will work.
1-Scales to measure out NaOH, or in a pinch use a metric teaspoon measure.
1-Litre volume measure, and something to measure out 250ml of methanol.
1-Bowl/container to mix the methanol and NaOH in.
1-Funnel
[edit]
Ingredients
1 litre oil, new or used (New will be more reliable).
250 ml methanol. Used in some gas line anti-freeze and as the fuel in some racing cars. ( NOTE: DO NOT use model airplane fuel, for it also contains Nitromethane and synthetic lubricating oil! ).
Container of NaOH (sodium hydroxide), also called Lye and caustic soda. Typically used to clean out sinks and drains.
[edit]
The technique
If using waste oil, take one litre and heat to at least 120°C to remove all water. If water is present the oil will spit and pop and carry on. If there is a lot of water this could get very violent, so be careful.
Once the water is gone (Oil becomes calm and there is no more spitting and popping) let the oil cool.
If you are using new oil from the bottle, just heat to around 55°C after you make your methoxide as there should be no water.
[edit]
Making the methoxide
Warning: Methoxide is a poison. Be careful not to breathe in the vapors. Wash away any splashes. Cartridge-based respirators will not filter-out methanol. If you are using new oil this will require about 4g NaOH (about half a slightly rounded metric teaspoon).
If you are using Used Oil, you should do a titration to determine the correct amount of NaOH, OR just try using 6-7 grams of NaOH (about 1 level metric teaspoon) and hope for the best. I have made hundreds of mini-batches of biodiesel from various types of oil using 6g NaOH and have NEVER had a failed batch. It is very probable that it will work for you too, but I do know of one person who had oil that was so used that it did not work.
NaOH and Methanol do not readily mix, so if you are doing it by hand, a bit of time and patience is required.
Don't sniff the fumes, mixing outside is recommended.
For quickest mixing, start with the methanol at JUST body temperature (not warm). As you mix, the temperature will increase substantially. This is normal. Make sure ALL the NaOH (lye) is dissolved. Hand mixing can be accomplished using a spoon to stir/crush the NaOH granules; OR placing methanol/NaOH in a glass bottle with a tight top and shaking/ swirling until ALL NaOH is dissolved. This may take 10 minutes or more.
Warning: The reaction between NaOH and methanol is exothermic, which means that it occurs spontaneously and produces heat. This is why the mixture warms up. In a tightly closed container, the release of heat will cause an increase of pressure. If too-large amounts are used in a too-weak container, there will be an explosion. Which could cause serious physical injury. Be careful with this technique.
After ALL the NaOH has dissolved, top up to 250ml with fresh methanol, as there may be some evaporation during mixing.
[edit]
Making the Biodiesel
When the Oil's temperature has dropped below 60 °C, use a funnel and pour the litre of oil into the dry 2 litre Dr Pepper bottle (in a pinch any other brand of bottle will do).
Take the mixture of methanol/NaOH (commonly called methoxide) and pour on top of the oil using the same funnel. Remove funnel.
Screw the top down TIGHT onto the bottle.
Shake vigorously for ten seconds/ 40 good shakes. NO significant pressure is generated during shaking.
Now place the bottle on a table and observe the oil change colour from a "Light Chocolate milk to a rich, darker brown." Then, as if by magic, within 10 minutes the by-product (commonly referred to as glycerin) starts to settle out and form an increasing layer on the bottom of the bottle. Be sure to notice that you can see a very definite, slowly sinking line towards the top of the Biodiesel as the glycerol slowly settles.
Within an hour, most of the glycerol will be settled out. This is referred to as separation.
You now have a bottle containing lighter coloured biodiesel on top of a layer of darker glycerol. The biodiesel will be very cloudy, and it will take a day or two more for it to clear. Typically the bottom glycerine layer is about the same or a bit more than the amount of methanol used.
SORRY FOR CHANGING THE SUBJECT BUT I JUST COULDN"T RESIST... LOL... This method seems really good... I'm searching like crazy on how to make your own methanol for you :D
I have heaps of stored used canola and unused. Can anyone see any inherent dangers with REDOX reaction causing detonation during this operation, I will try to mix with heaps of pressure allowance, possibly squeezing the bottle so its a slight vacuum before mixing the NaOH so it has plenty of room to expand. Any advise would be greatly appreciated... its going straight into my ramjet when complete.
Link is here but will be delete very shortly.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_make_biodiesel
I suggest you save it for future refrence... I'm really keen on running Pj's on bio diesel, i think they should make the ultimate relationship if it works :D Goodluck.
==========================================
The World Famous Dr Pepper Technique (Pat Pend)
This is the easiest most fool proof method for making your first homebrewed few mini-batches of biodiesel. As an added bonus, the only "specialized" equipment required is a thermometer, accurate scales to measure out NaOH (in a pinch a metric teaspoon measure will work), and something to measure out 250 ml of methanol and 1 litre of vegetable oil.
Contents [hide]
1 CAUTION
2 Equipment
3 Ingredients
4 The technique
5 Making the methoxide
6 Making the Biodiesel
7 See also
8 External links
[edit]
CAUTION
If you are new to Biodiesel making, a few words of caution are in order:
You will be working with dangerous chemicals. Therefore you must use common-sense.
Methanol is a flammable liquid that can be absorbed through skin, by inhalation, or consumption. It can cause blindness and death if care is not taken. be careful not to inhale any vapors. Cartridge-based respirators will not filter out methanol.
Sodium hydroxide (Caustic soda, NaOH, lye) can cause severe burns and death. Long-sleeve shirt, full shoes and trousers are recommended, no shorts or sandals.
Wear chemical proof gloves, apron, and eye protection.
Always have running water available to wash off any splashes but be careful not to allow any water into any steps of this procedure.
Methanol boils at 65 °C. You must mix only when the oil is below 60 °C.
Now that I have your attention, just realize that Methanol is the fuel used in many race cars, and can be obtained from a dealer that sells racing fuels. In the USA methanol is available in small quantities as HEET brand fuel line antifreeze (Yellow bottle)
Lye is an every-day drain cleaner.
Both are freely available in most large shopping centres and are safe when used properly.
Before you make your first batch of Biodiesel you should read Mike Pelly's excellent article about biodiesel. (see external links at the bottom of the page).
Once again: Cartridge-based respirators will not filter out methanol.
[edit]
Equipment
1-2 litre (1.9 in USA) dry Dr Pepper bottle, with top, in sound, airtight condition.
1-thermometer good to 120 ºC, often candy thermometers will work.
1-Scales to measure out NaOH, or in a pinch use a metric teaspoon measure.
1-Litre volume measure, and something to measure out 250ml of methanol.
1-Bowl/container to mix the methanol and NaOH in.
1-Funnel
[edit]
Ingredients
1 litre oil, new or used (New will be more reliable).
250 ml methanol. Used in some gas line anti-freeze and as the fuel in some racing cars. ( NOTE: DO NOT use model airplane fuel, for it also contains Nitromethane and synthetic lubricating oil! ).
Container of NaOH (sodium hydroxide), also called Lye and caustic soda. Typically used to clean out sinks and drains.
[edit]
The technique
If using waste oil, take one litre and heat to at least 120°C to remove all water. If water is present the oil will spit and pop and carry on. If there is a lot of water this could get very violent, so be careful.
Once the water is gone (Oil becomes calm and there is no more spitting and popping) let the oil cool.
If you are using new oil from the bottle, just heat to around 55°C after you make your methoxide as there should be no water.
[edit]
Making the methoxide
Warning: Methoxide is a poison. Be careful not to breathe in the vapors. Wash away any splashes. Cartridge-based respirators will not filter-out methanol. If you are using new oil this will require about 4g NaOH (about half a slightly rounded metric teaspoon).
If you are using Used Oil, you should do a titration to determine the correct amount of NaOH, OR just try using 6-7 grams of NaOH (about 1 level metric teaspoon) and hope for the best. I have made hundreds of mini-batches of biodiesel from various types of oil using 6g NaOH and have NEVER had a failed batch. It is very probable that it will work for you too, but I do know of one person who had oil that was so used that it did not work.
NaOH and Methanol do not readily mix, so if you are doing it by hand, a bit of time and patience is required.
Don't sniff the fumes, mixing outside is recommended.
For quickest mixing, start with the methanol at JUST body temperature (not warm). As you mix, the temperature will increase substantially. This is normal. Make sure ALL the NaOH (lye) is dissolved. Hand mixing can be accomplished using a spoon to stir/crush the NaOH granules; OR placing methanol/NaOH in a glass bottle with a tight top and shaking/ swirling until ALL NaOH is dissolved. This may take 10 minutes or more.
Warning: The reaction between NaOH and methanol is exothermic, which means that it occurs spontaneously and produces heat. This is why the mixture warms up. In a tightly closed container, the release of heat will cause an increase of pressure. If too-large amounts are used in a too-weak container, there will be an explosion. Which could cause serious physical injury. Be careful with this technique.
After ALL the NaOH has dissolved, top up to 250ml with fresh methanol, as there may be some evaporation during mixing.
[edit]
Making the Biodiesel
When the Oil's temperature has dropped below 60 °C, use a funnel and pour the litre of oil into the dry 2 litre Dr Pepper bottle (in a pinch any other brand of bottle will do).
Take the mixture of methanol/NaOH (commonly called methoxide) and pour on top of the oil using the same funnel. Remove funnel.
Screw the top down TIGHT onto the bottle.
Shake vigorously for ten seconds/ 40 good shakes. NO significant pressure is generated during shaking.
Now place the bottle on a table and observe the oil change colour from a "Light Chocolate milk to a rich, darker brown." Then, as if by magic, within 10 minutes the by-product (commonly referred to as glycerin) starts to settle out and form an increasing layer on the bottom of the bottle. Be sure to notice that you can see a very definite, slowly sinking line towards the top of the Biodiesel as the glycerol slowly settles.
Within an hour, most of the glycerol will be settled out. This is referred to as separation.
You now have a bottle containing lighter coloured biodiesel on top of a layer of darker glycerol. The biodiesel will be very cloudy, and it will take a day or two more for it to clear. Typically the bottom glycerine layer is about the same or a bit more than the amount of methanol used.
SORRY FOR CHANGING THE SUBJECT BUT I JUST COULDN"T RESIST... LOL... This method seems really good... I'm searching like crazy on how to make your own methanol for you :D
-
Greg O'Bryant
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:03 am
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
You can easily make ethanol from just about any sugar source. However the yeast are very finicky. Most yeast's won’t ferment past 12% alcohol or they begin to die off, so make your starting gravity accordingly. Also yeast need nutrients to grow properly and a good aerobic cycle at the start of the fermentation so that they can reproduce. Although you could use table sugar they would actually do better with a fruit juice due to nutrient content and the fact that it is easier for yeast to ferment simple sugars like fructose and glucose compared to disaccharides. Even though it would be really easy to make a fractionating still from copper plumbing parts it is illegal to distill alcohol. Last a little methanol is always produced when making ethanol. They compete for binding sites in your liver so the ethanol actually helps lower the toxicity of the methanol by diluting the exposure amount.
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
even if it's for fuel?
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Eric
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:17 am
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- Contact:
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
In the US its only illegal to distill and then sell it. You can brew as much as you want for your own personal use, though they might make some future law against making your own fuel for highway use.
Brewing yeast will work the best and produce the least methanol. Though it still will produce methanol, its really important to get the methanol out of the alcohol if you plan to drink it. Methanol boils at a few degrees lower than ethanol so simply heating it to a specific temperature will cause the methanol to boil off.
Methanol attacks nerves and can cause blindness, dont drink any quantity of methanol!
For fuel use go with ethanol, its less powerful but it doesnt produce the nasty toxic byproducts like methanol can.
Using fruit would not exactly be a cost effective way of making fuel unless you are using stuff that grocery stores are throwing out. A pound of fruit will cost a lot more than a pound of methanol, and the pound of fruit wouldnt produce anywhere near a pound of fuel.
Eric
Brewing yeast will work the best and produce the least methanol. Though it still will produce methanol, its really important to get the methanol out of the alcohol if you plan to drink it. Methanol boils at a few degrees lower than ethanol so simply heating it to a specific temperature will cause the methanol to boil off.
Methanol attacks nerves and can cause blindness, dont drink any quantity of methanol!
For fuel use go with ethanol, its less powerful but it doesnt produce the nasty toxic byproducts like methanol can.
Using fruit would not exactly be a cost effective way of making fuel unless you are using stuff that grocery stores are throwing out. A pound of fruit will cost a lot more than a pound of methanol, and the pound of fruit wouldnt produce anywhere near a pound of fuel.
Eric
Talking like a pirate does not qualify as experience, this should be common sense, as pirates have little real life experience in anything other than smelling bad, and contracting venereal diseases
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
methanol is great for fuel though. I wanted to use it to power the TP180-18 i'm going to build. I don't plan on drinking it since it would be illegal anyway (6 more years...) , and I dont think it would taste very good.
Eric did you get my e-mail?
Eric did you get my e-mail?
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Eric
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:17 am
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- Location: United States
- Contact:
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
Sorry I should have said "brew" not distill.
Talking like a pirate does not qualify as experience, this should be common sense, as pirates have little real life experience in anything other than smelling bad, and contracting venereal diseases
-
leo
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:53 pm
- Antipspambot question: 0
- Location: netherlands
- Contact:
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
take a pick
google search
google search
Re: re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
Glad you don't plan to drink methanol at present. Hopefully you'll resist the urge when you're "legal" as well, since methanol is poisonous.NickC wrote:methanol is great for fuel though. I wanted to use it to power the TP180-18 i'm going to build. I don't plan on drinking it since it would be illegal anyway (6 more years...) , and I dont think it would taste very good.
The alcohol that many of us like to quaff in a scotch, frosty mug of beer etc. is ethanol.
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
i know all about methanol and ethanol. It's just how to produce them I need to learn.
I could just distill them in a glassware still with a hotplate and I could get out the methanol anyhow. A mix will be fine, if not better, for a pulsejet.
I could just distill them in a glassware still with a hotplate and I could get out the methanol anyhow. A mix will be fine, if not better, for a pulsejet.
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tufty
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re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
Distilling is not hard. Not even tricky. Especially if you're not worried about the result containing a mix of both methanol and ethanol.
All you need is some alcohol-containing "mash" (typically a "beer" made from fruits, but you could use anything), some sort of container for heating the mash in (a stainless steel pressure cooker works quite well for this, remove the pressure valve and attach a common-or-garden propane tube to it to get a flexible "feed"), and a "serpentine" - about 10m of smallish guage copper tubing does pretty well for this, coil it so that it fits inside a bucket, drill an exit hole at the bottom of the bucket and feed the bottom part of the copper tubing out of there, plug it with silicine sealant.
The "start" of your serpentine should have a place to add a thermometer that can handle centigrade temperatures up to 100 or so, you need to monitor the temperature of the vapour coming off.
So, what you do is whack a load of mash in your pressure cooker, seal it up, a load of cold water in your bucket, and start heating the pressure cooker gently. Don't overheat it. as the alcohol boils off, the temperature shown on your thermometer should rise to 78ish centigrade and then stay there; you will be collecting "alcohol" at the exit of the serpentine (it will be completely undrinkable, potentially dangerously so, but hey, it's for fuel). Eventually, the temperature will start rising again (the mixture is now more water than alcohol, and you are collecting water vapour), this is the point at which you stop collecting, stop heating, and start all over again.
Don't use an open flame to heat your pressure cooker unless you know exactly what you're doing. remember, alcohol vapour is highly flammable. Actually, don't use an open flame to heat full stop.
It's a long and boring process. doing 100l of mash in 8l batches takes time. Not that I'd know. Not that my pressure cooker is 8l. not that I have another 200l to do. oh no.
Obviously, if one was to do the same to get a drinkable result, one would want to make sure one's pipes were extremely clean, and that the magic temperatures of 64.7C and 78.4C were respected, and one would be very careful as to where one "cut" the heads and tails. But to do so would be very illegal in most countries, so don't do that, mmmmkay?
Simon
All you need is some alcohol-containing "mash" (typically a "beer" made from fruits, but you could use anything), some sort of container for heating the mash in (a stainless steel pressure cooker works quite well for this, remove the pressure valve and attach a common-or-garden propane tube to it to get a flexible "feed"), and a "serpentine" - about 10m of smallish guage copper tubing does pretty well for this, coil it so that it fits inside a bucket, drill an exit hole at the bottom of the bucket and feed the bottom part of the copper tubing out of there, plug it with silicine sealant.
The "start" of your serpentine should have a place to add a thermometer that can handle centigrade temperatures up to 100 or so, you need to monitor the temperature of the vapour coming off.
So, what you do is whack a load of mash in your pressure cooker, seal it up, a load of cold water in your bucket, and start heating the pressure cooker gently. Don't overheat it. as the alcohol boils off, the temperature shown on your thermometer should rise to 78ish centigrade and then stay there; you will be collecting "alcohol" at the exit of the serpentine (it will be completely undrinkable, potentially dangerously so, but hey, it's for fuel). Eventually, the temperature will start rising again (the mixture is now more water than alcohol, and you are collecting water vapour), this is the point at which you stop collecting, stop heating, and start all over again.
Don't use an open flame to heat your pressure cooker unless you know exactly what you're doing. remember, alcohol vapour is highly flammable. Actually, don't use an open flame to heat full stop.
It's a long and boring process. doing 100l of mash in 8l batches takes time. Not that I'd know. Not that my pressure cooker is 8l. not that I have another 200l to do. oh no.
Obviously, if one was to do the same to get a drinkable result, one would want to make sure one's pipes were extremely clean, and that the magic temperatures of 64.7C and 78.4C were respected, and one would be very careful as to where one "cut" the heads and tails. But to do so would be very illegal in most countries, so don't do that, mmmmkay?
Simon
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Jim Berquist
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- Location: DEMING NM 88030
re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
My Cousin, Oggie back east has a stainless steel barrel he just loads about 1/2 full of cracked corn. Clean water, 20 lbs of sugar . Set up on a stand about 1 foot off the ground a really low propane burner under it. After it's up to a boil, killing all the bad stuff and some what softening the corn, he adds some yeast when it is cooled down. Places a air lock in the bung to keep out the outside air......
Go away and come back in 4 weeks, add water to the air lock and go away!
Come back in another week and if the bubbles have not stopped in the air lock, Go away for 1 more week!
Come back and remove air lock , replace it with your glass condenser and restart the fire. Barrel should reach a temp just to hot to touch! Keep it that way while you go fishing, hunting or what ever for the rest of the day.
Depending on your corn, mix and ambient temps over the fermentation time, it should yield like 2 gal.......
Quality control of the product: Should be like 190 proof. 200 proof being 100%.
Test is as follows: Two methods are suggested.
You can cheat and use a hydrometer and calculate your proof.
Or you can knock back about 1/4 oz of it. If it taste like Rocket fuel and burns like a wire brush going down your throat it should work.
Anything less then that is sold to the entertainment industry!
The cooked corn mash fattens up pigs and chickens really good!
UHH Ohhh!!!!!! IT'S THEM OGGIE, RUN , RUN,,,,,,,,DON'T LOOK BACK JUST RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go away and come back in 4 weeks, add water to the air lock and go away!
Come back in another week and if the bubbles have not stopped in the air lock, Go away for 1 more week!
Come back and remove air lock , replace it with your glass condenser and restart the fire. Barrel should reach a temp just to hot to touch! Keep it that way while you go fishing, hunting or what ever for the rest of the day.
Depending on your corn, mix and ambient temps over the fermentation time, it should yield like 2 gal.......
Quality control of the product: Should be like 190 proof. 200 proof being 100%.
Test is as follows: Two methods are suggested.
You can cheat and use a hydrometer and calculate your proof.
Or you can knock back about 1/4 oz of it. If it taste like Rocket fuel and burns like a wire brush going down your throat it should work.
Anything less then that is sold to the entertainment industry!
The cooked corn mash fattens up pigs and chickens really good!
UHH Ohhh!!!!!! IT'S THEM OGGIE, RUN , RUN,,,,,,,,DON'T LOOK BACK JUST RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT TO FRAP, IT WORKED![url=callto://james.a.berquist]
[/url]
[/url]re: Make your own ethanol/methanol?
I wouldn't drink it since it probably contains some methanol......