High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer)

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.milisavljevic
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High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer)

Post by .milisavljevic » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:42 pm

I go away for awhile and just look what happens: folks claiming pulsejet "first to do's", as if they were truly the first ones.
If they wish to employ their native language more precisely...I recommend that they carefully qualify their future postings.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Do you people honestly think that the universe of pulsejet achievements is fully reflected within this forum of yours? No?
What is more amusing (to me anyway!), is that some may have claimed things as "first to do's", when they knew at the
time of their posting that someone else (yours truly) had already notified them off-forum that the "firsts" were attained.

So, let us take a brief look at three (3) of these valveless pulsejet "non-events":

1. duct acoustic temperature approaching (or exceeding) 750 K;
2. specific fuel consumption (SFC) less than 1.6, sans ejectors;
3. specific fuel consumption (SFC) at or near 1.0, sans ejectors.

Number 1. It was none other than yours truly who _introduced_ the concept of "effective acoustic temperature" into this
forum, back when "this forum" was the "old forum"... Where did you think that "magical" value of 750 K came from? Was
it possible that after the QD-80/88, that I never bothered to take a duct to this limit? In any event, it happened in 2004,
before 'Burning Grape', and then for independent confirmation, somewhat after 'Burning Grape' by Marten Klein, with his
K-PT 07X pulsejet. To be fair to Marten, he attained about 752 K. The value of 750 K is approximate, and varies with the
choice of fuel, among other things. If Marten wants to write, or not write, more about his achievement(s), it is up to him.

Of course, number 1. is a "non-event" because Snecma (and then Lockwood, and then Kentfield) had achieved this one.
__

Number 2. The QD-88 repeatedly demonstrated a minimum SFC of 1.3 in the second half of 2004 (folks need to read up
on the use of significant digits). This was not posted to the forum, but certain people were informed off-forum (by email).
This was obviously before 'Burning Grape', when the measured SFC of 1.6 by Bill Hinote's "mini-Escopeta" was reported.

Even wrt the "mini-Escopeta", what was not reported, at least on-forum, is that I directly helped Bill get his duct running
in the first place. If you could bother to read the old threads, you will find that this engine was "still-born". No matter, the
"mini" is Bill's engine. BTW, where do you think that the "mini's" nifty propane vapour "auto-starting" feature came from?

I chose the value of 1.6 as we have historical documents demonstrating that this level of SFC was reached decades ago;
therefore, this too, is a "non-event". As is the "auto-start". The best we can do so far is re-capture Snecma's past glories.
__

Number 3. The "Big 1.0". Someone (anyone want to guess who?) was informed _before_ 'Burning Grape', in writing, that
a test of a so-called "sub-unity" valveless pulsejet was imminent. Did I lie? You can believe whatever you want, and from
what I have read in this forum, you do...Facts be damned. This is too often the land of "ghosts and fairies". Sad, but true.

To be fair, the actual test runs had not been completed by 'Burning Grape'; however, someone (guess who) decided to go
their own way shortly after 'Burning Grape' and was therefore never informed. In any case, I have a solution for this point:

*** READ THE FOLLOWING SECTION CAREFULLY ***

I am going to upload to this forum _all_ of the information necessary for any of you to construct a valveless pulsejet that
is able to attain a SFC of approximately 1.0 kgf/kg/hr (lbf/lbm/hr), if not less, _without_ the use of augmenters. To make
my offer "double-sweet", the first pulsejet that I am providing will be a 250N-class (55 lbf) "Lockwood-Hiller replacement".

I will start with a fully dimensioned duct and the dimensions for fuel injector feed(s) (propane vapour). If necessary, I will
provide a design for a suitable fuel injector; however, "advanced" or "special" injectors will not be required. Even humble
"swizzle stick" injectors will not push SFC past perhaps 1.5 kgf/kg/hr (this is still "world-class" performance). You always
have the option of buying injectors from Eric Beck; I am sure that his designs are sound (and it is for a very good cause).

It is my intention to "design-to-spec"; however, if there is any demand, I will upload a dimensioned duct that can be put
together (primarily) from COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) components, e.g., Burns Stainless (performance may be lower).

So, if any one wants to power a go-kart (or whatever), and not want (or need) anything more potent that propane vapour,
all you need to do is follow the plans that I will upload. Smaller engines and different configurations may follow, as my time
permits (and if there is any response to justify such effort). The first 55 lbf pulsejet design will be uploaded within 20 days.

Of course, it goes without saying, that _all_ of this information will be provided at no charge, for your non-commercial use.
__

There you have it. Like it or leave it, it matters not to me; this "look at me, flash it, hide it" ride is coming to an end. Soon.
Let the pulsejet "arms race" begin...my "guns" will be _free to everyone_, even for those of you who dislike me the most.

Best regards,
Störgröße M.
Last edited by .milisavljevic on Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Putting the lie to the myths of Greybeards, Oafs and Dilettantes since 2001"

(Admin note: this account has been locked and the user sent a new password for their old account, "milisavljevic".)

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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Mike Everman » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:24 pm

There's 50% gray in my beard, so I'm holding out for that, though I do admit to some oafishness.

I'm not going to talk to the attacks on Bill, I just don't have the energy. It's tough to welcome back such acidic prose, but like picking a scab, I can't help myself. How you been, em?
Mike
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Post by .milisavljevic » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:12 pm

Mike,

I have no more acid to throw, and will not debate about the comments I have posted above. Hence, my "solution".
Subsequent posts will be directly related to implementing what I have proposed to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

Btw...Will you ask the forum admin to please refrain from making "back-door edits" to my post(s); he seems to be
in the habit of doing this with other peoples' posts, and then asking for permission after the fact. Beyond the pale.

I have been fine, thank you for asking. As to you: please have a safe trip to the UK. I hope the weather is perfect.

Best regards,
Störgröße M.

PS: You can lock this thread, if you like. I will open a new thread to discuss the pulsejet projects I have proposed.
"Putting the lie to the myths of Greybeards, Oafs and Dilettantes since 2001"

(Admin note: this account has been locked and the user sent a new password for their old account, "milisavljevic".)

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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by larry cottrill » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:38 pm

M -

Glad to hear from you, and in fine style, too!

Lots of grey here, though the beard is kept short, especially in summer. But, Dilettante? I strongly represent that ;-)

I also plead guilty to oafishness, mostly around wives and horses.

L Cottrill

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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by leo » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:16 pm

Hi Milisavljevic welcome back.

I have a motor less kart standing here for a long time now, I still can decide what design of valveless pulsjets I will build for it.
I look forward to your design, maybe that’s the one I like.

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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Eric » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:26 pm

Hey M.
I am not going to post any more things that will make anyone feel like they have to make an post totally denying everything and pretending to be oblivious about why anyone would even mention such things, but I wanted to thank you very very much for making these things much more clear, was quite a pleasant surprise this morning.

There others out there, I wish you guys would speak up, the water is already choppy so making waves is not a problem.

I am sure there are more than a few that think I was confused or blowing things out of proportions, I wish everyone involved would speak up to really show the scope and nature of the situation.

Eric
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Talking like a pirate does not qualify as experience, this should be common sense, as pirates have little real life experience in anything other than smelling bad, and contracting venereal diseases

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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Jonny69 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:34 pm

Hi milisavljevic, welcome back. You're a bit before my time on this forum but I've stumbled across your previous posts. One question though: how come all your old posts say "DELETED"? Is this the mysterious backdoor edits you talk about?

Looking forward to this info though. Come one, I hate suspense, post it up!!!

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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Mike Everman » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:32 pm

Gentlemen,
I am increasingly aggravated by character assassinations. Bill is taking the high road, to his credit, by not responding. It's all petty and should be beneath the parties involved. M and Eric, you should know that I have a great deal of respect for you both. Please show some maturity. M should consider himself lucky to have worked with Bill, and confident that he has not shared one shred of what he was asked not to reveal. And so what if Bill uses terminology coined by M? Coming up with an average duct temperature is just basic engineering, no matter what you want to call it. Bill's use last year of "Cronje score" was just funny; it's clearly a number meaningless to anyone but M. There is no need to blast someone as not being fit to use a word. This is an AMATEUR ENTHUSIAST'S FORUM. Most of us who dream of commercial success with this stuff are just that, dreaming. We needn't hold nice folks strictly accountable for the things they spew forth when posting. Believe it or don't. Say you don't believe or show your work to the contrary, but save the personally critical comments.

Eric needs to quit waiting for some sort of recognition or apology, merely because they were in correspondence before Bill's success, whether it's new ground or not. Whether Bill was influenced by those conversations or not is pure conjecture on Eric's part. I can attest that Bill's injector has nothing to do with Beck-Tech's offerings, and I understand if it was disappointing that he didn't try hard enough with Eric's injectors. We do what we can do.

If we are to work together, we can't expect to acknowledge everyone that chimes in with "here's what you should do". Taking the high road on the receiving end of these many offerings means not saying "I thought of that" or "you're not the first to think that", or "that's been posted 50 times, use the search function, dude."
I've downgraded my own versions of those responses to "I've always wondered if that might work", or "thank you for showing me that this idea works!" or "that's a popular idea, why don't you try it?" OK, so I'm not all the way up on the high road.

Any good designer will have reams of ideas, and it is of course nice to acknowledge the guy that actually builds, tests and reports success with some idea that a reasonably good designer would chance upon after a few years of ruminating on the subject. Bill's injector is a perfect example of this, and he should really post it, since many have been down that road conceptually without trying it.

I fear Eric and M. will permanently alienate one of our valuable contributors, and I'd rather have this happy, prolific builder be part of this great community.

Who am I? I am the guy who will personally take further barbed posts and "wish them into the cornfield". Freedom of speech is alive and well, but we mods will not tolerate smear campaigns.
Mike
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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Mark » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:15 pm

My youngest sister just earned one million dollars from her part of a business that was sold. She is a CPA . I think money talks and if anyone here is raking in money with their ideas, then that is the proof in the pudding. If they are quibbling about facts and figures, then they need to cast their line out into the world of work, and see who wants their ideas. That is, who wants their ideas in terms of cash dollars. That's the bottom line. Who's making the big money at pulse-jets.com?
I'm hoping to come in the back door, with a simple SMALL device that will not offend the neighbors, yet be fun for all. And even then, I am probably dreaming.
Mark
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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Mike Everman » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:19 am

Good luck, Mark. Isn't it "proof in the putting"?
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Re: re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in

Post by Viv » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:00 am

Mike Everman wrote:Good luck, Mark. Isn't it "proof in the putting"?
pudding

Viv

But then I wondered at the root so had to look it up

Perhaps it's a sign of our increasingly fast-paced, short-attention-span society that even our old proverbs are being shortened and clipped down from the original full sayings. Word Detective and other etymology sites pointed out that the phrase originated as "the proof of the pudding is in the eating." It means that the true value or quality of something can only be judged when it's put to use. The meaning is often summed up as "results are what count."
According to Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, the phrase dates back to at least 1615 when Miguel de Cervantes published Don Quixote. In this comic novel, the phrase is stated as, "The proof of the pudding is the eating."

Word Detective and the American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms note that the phrase came into use around 1600. However, a bulletin board quotes The Dictionary of Cliches, which dates the phrase to the 14th century. The board also mentions a 1682 version from Bileau's Le Lutrin, which read, "The proof of th' pudding's seen i' the eating." A page of pudding definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary also cites the author Boileau (Bileau) as the first to use the phrase. So it seems likely that the phrase dates back to the 1600s, though the identity of its author is disputed.

These days, some people shorten the phrase to simply "proof of the pudding." Even the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language trims it down. Occasionally, it is even further abbreviated to "proof in pudding," irritating purists who argue that the shortened versions don't mean anything on their own. Let's just hope it doesn't get further reduced any time soon. "Proofpudding" just doesn't cut it.


From ASK
Last edited by Viv on Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Mark » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:01 am

Yes, I believe it was Larry who pointed that out to me rather a long time ago.
Mark
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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Mike Everman » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:09 am

I sit corrected, proodding it is!
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re: High-performance pulsejets for all, for free (as in beer

Post by Dave » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:35 am

M and all:

“I am going to upload to this forum _all_ of the information necessary…â€

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Pudding pops

Post by milisavljevic » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:15 pm

Hello Dave,

You may be surprised to see how little information that is required. It takes no more information to describe the "perfect"
pulsejet than it does to describe the "imperfect" ones, i.e., at least one dimensioned drawing (and perhaps some notes).

Please do not think that I am so careless as to not know what I have posted (that is left for others who are better at it).
__

It seems that I have an archive of pulsejets that need to be uploaded to the forum, in addition to the promised pulsejet.

Some of the better examples, and by no means an exhaustive list:
1. QD-88 - an original software-designed duct;
2. QD-90 - a "corrected" version of the QD-88;
3. SA-60 - the Snecma Ecrevisse 'C' model, a 600 N-class pulsejet;
4. HS-1A - an 1100 N-class cooperative Snecma-Hiller pulsejet designed for S/VTOL operations (SFC = 1.0 with ejectors);
5. HH-5.25-7 - a Hiller S/VTOL pulsejet; see [ http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb2/files/ ... er_193.jpg ];

The last three examples are historical examples of high-performance pulsejets. The dimensions and some specifications
for each of these ducts were recreated by using special software; otherwise, much of the original documentation is lost.

There is also this sweetie [ http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb2/files/ ... ns_119.gif ];
items 3a. and 3b. being examples of my work. This engine should also be revisited or upgraded; I will add it onto the list.
__

While people are waiting for their "puddings", I can only wonder: How many actually have the stomach to try and eat it?

Best regards,
Störgröße M.
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for ye merchants who do the prop'r t'ing only if
ye be haul'd-up on charges b'fore ye ship-mates
an' threat'nd wit' forfeiture of all ye precious loot
hear this - so-called stand-up guys YE BE NOT

avast!
Cap'n M.

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