Hydrogen Peroxide Fuel

[Asmodeus]

I have just been reading the latest copy of New Scientist and there is an article on rocket packs. They run on hydrogen peroxide which is decomposed over a catalyst, creating steam & oxygen. The exhaust is relatively cool as well. Has anyone tried using this as a fuel?

[Eric]

No, and with good reason. Any hydrogen peroxide that can be used as fuel is extremely dangerous to organic tissue, aka our feable bodies.

Its not something I would want to mess around with, especially spraying it into a pulsejet.

Eric

[Mark]

Maybe you could use H2O2 as an instant sauna chemical. Instead of hot rocks in the sauna, you could use a silver screen. And you would get an instant blast of O2 too. Minor details to be worked out.
Mark

[Bruno Ogorelec]

Minor details to be worked out.

Those can always be left to the undertaker.

[MJD]

In theory it could probably be used; as we work with it here in 50-90% concentrations I've considered it's potential use in a pulse jet. Not for sport mind you, but for other applications. And not as the sole propellant ingredient.

One issue of course is the high specific fuel consumption, which in a pulse jet is already a problem with fuels burning at high fuel to air ratios. As you are now decomposing a monopropellant, the air intake is superfluous for the reaction process, however you would need it for suction. Unless of course you were using an injector pump, in which case you would be better off building a monopropellant rocket engine which is essentially what you would be doing anyway, and it would be a lot smaller and lighter! However, you could also inject a fuel as well, in which case you would have an air breathing bipropellant pulse jet. Might be good for bragging rights but you can use it more efficiently in a rocket chamber at substantially elevated pressure ratios.

MJD

[El-Kablooey]

MJD pretty much siad it all, I guess. H2O2 isn't all that hazardous, I've used 50% concentrations on occasion. It isn't something you want to spill all over, or leave out for your dog to drink though. I did once however, let a bowl of 30% H2O2 slip my mind for a second, and my pet duck (Howard), who constantly drinks out of everything holding water, dipped his bill in and immediately began shaking his head wildly and making all sorts of non-duck noises. This of course scared the crap out of me, as I love this duck like he is my son (sounds strange, I know, but he is the best pet I've ever had. He is really an exceptional duck, understanding most english, and even housebroken, smarter than most dogs in my opinion) I took him to some fresh water immediately and after he drank and drank for a few minutes he was fine.

The main argument I have, is this has nothing to do with valveless PJs. using H2O2 either as a monopropellant or oxidiser will make a rocket engine, plain and simple.

[Eric]

Are you going to take Howard for rides on the boat? If you could find a duck size WW2 pilots helmet that would make for an awesome picture.

30% isnt too bad, still very bad for consumption. LD50 is around 1.5 g/kg. Above 50% starts to get nasty-er very quick. 90% has the potential to be very very nasty.

Of course you can handle and use the stuff if you follow all the necessary saftey requirements, just not something ya can go "hey lets dump this in the fuel tank and see if she runs....... KABOOM."

Eric

[El-Kablooey]

Point taken, Eric.


Yeah, Howard will have to ride since he's too lazy to fly along, and sure can't swim anywhere near fast enough. He is one odd duck for sure, I've known people with domesticated ducks before, but this one is part of the family. Sometimes he'll get on my nerves a little, because he likes to sneak up on me (or any other victims he can find) and pinch me then run off laughing hysterically. When he's driving me nuts I'll put him outside, he hates being out alone, he'll quack at the door for awhile, then you'll see him peeking in the window, it may get quiet for a minute, then you'll here him start quacking like someone pulled in the driveway (guard duck, with a very specific "someone's here" quack) after that you'll hear a (weak) knock on the door. He's fooled me a couple of times like this, I'll open the door and here comes Howard at full sprint between my legs. I swear I have never laughed at anything as much as I laugh at that duck.

I'm glad you said that about the aviator's helmet, I'll bet i can make one from an old leather handbag or something. I'll have to go talk my mom out of one!


Back to the H2O2 thing, I have even read where 90%+ , when spilled on flammables (wood for instance) can cause them to ignite immediately, and burn like crazy. So yes, you have to be careful, just as you would with any acidic or caustic materials. Since you'll have to distill your own to get concentrations above 30%, you should already know whats up anyway.

[Eric]

Yes well the average idiot pyromaniac probably wouldnt be able to get above 30% easily, but higher concentrations are available, if you know where to look.

90% will cause instant fire / explosion like that. The fact that it will react or destroy so many materials makes it hard to store and use with a DIY budget.

[steve]

I recently saw a demonstration of micro H2O2 rockets for use in satellite and small spacecraft thrusters. we used 90% H2O2

[Hawking]

If I remember correctly, the ball jet pack from the 60's used H2O2 for fuel. The pack has been used in many movies and TV shows over the years.

Fuel consumption was extravagant though, with a full tank giving about 20 seconds of flight.


Don

[Bruno Ogorelec]

If I remember correctly, the ball jet pack from the 60's used H2O2 for fuel. The pack has been used in many movies and TV shows over the years.

Fuel consumption was extravagant though, with a full tank giving about 20 seconds of flight.


Don

Bell also made a much better and safer turbojet powered jetpack. Here's a pic.

[Bruno Ogorelec]

And this is what the H2O2 rocket belt looks like in action.

[steve]

Neat videos, Steve. Did you ask how the catalyst was set up, or what it was made of? Was the pulsation because of the gravity fed "fuel", or was it intentionally modulated?

He had several types of catalyst, but silver and platnium were used most often. they were in the form of an extemely fine (and extremely expensive) mesh. about $200 per square inch for the platnium if I remember correctly.

the pulses were controled by a computer. the fuel was kept in an aluminium sphere with a diaphram in the middle. on the bottom was fuel and on the top was compressed air (initially supplied by a bycicle pump).

[steve]

Neat videos, Steve. Did you ask how the catalyst was set up, or what it was made of? Was the pulsation because of the gravity fed "fuel", or was it intentionally modulated?

He had several types of catalyst, but silver and platnium were used most often. they were in the form of an extemely fine (and extremely expensive) mesh. about $200 per square inch for the platnium if I remember correctly.

the pulses were controled by a computer. the fuel was kept in an aluminium sphere with a diaphram in the middle. on the bottom was fuel and on the top was compressed air (initially supplied by a bycicle pump).