Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Jets that defy normal classification

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PyroJoe
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Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by PyroJoe » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:17 pm

Many of us have some design or random thoughts along these lines. This one is a simple illustration, have maybe 100 different pencil sketched versions of this dating back over 20 years, some with reed valves, some with vanes. etc. Probably won't run as illustrated and don't recommend building one.

The main advantage I see in the design is the mass flow of the pulse jet is closely coupled to the turbine. (Not a true Tesla turbine but somewhat using the outer edge of the turbine disks)
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Mike Everman
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by Mike Everman » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:37 am

cool. I made a motor that looks similar, but was designed to spin itself. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4190&st=0&sk=t&sd=d ... =15#p50185
A project I want to return to someday...
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ace_fedde
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Turbines driven by pulse jets, Part 4

Post by ace_fedde » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:51 pm

Turbines driven by pulse jets, Part 4

When I was reading this web page:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tesla-tur ... /printable
,I was thinking (not knowing what was already done and designed), hmm let,s combine that with a PJ. And as always, what do I read at the end of the article?:

.....One company making serious progress is Phoenix Navigation and Guidance Inc. (PNGinc), located in Munising, Michigan. PNGinc has combined disk turbine technology with a pulse detonation combustor in an engine the company says delivers unprecedented efficiencies.....

Fedde
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PyroJoe
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by PyroJoe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:33 pm

Interesting:
From the above linked article:

"There are 29 active disks, each 10 inches (25.4 centimeters) in diameter, sandwiched between two tapered end disks. The engine generates 18,000 rpm and 130 horsepower. To overcome the extreme centrifugal forces inherent to the turbine, PNGinc uses a variety of advanced materials, such as carbon-fiber, titanium-impregnated plastic and Kevlar-reinforced disks."



(maybe this is it, or just a regular turbine housing.)
http://phoenixnavigation.com/html/disc_turbines_8.html

A 10" turbine:
"We improved the turbine efficiency by 30% over Nikola Tesla's original design."
http://phoenixnavigation.com/html/disc_turbines_3.html

Wonder how they advanced it by 30% over the original design? Interesting stuff.

ace_fedde
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by ace_fedde » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:03 pm

I must say, I have a strange feeling when browsing their website. The kind of feeling I also get when I read on our forum about B**** S***** (from Australia) edit: or is it NZ?

Of course that doesn't say that combining Tesla and PJ is a host.

Fedde
Last edited by ace_fedde on Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PyroJoe
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by PyroJoe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:30 pm

A tepid feel of fishing of wealthy investors to fund the "cause". We all have seen much worse. ha

Do like the selection of stainless steel disk and such. Overall, not bad for a grass roots campaign.

ace_fedde
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by ace_fedde » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:17 pm

The interesting thing though about a (real) Tesla turbine is that it doesn't need static pressure to feed it, just flow (velocity pressure). I have a feeling in my guts that it is even possible for a single Tesla turbine (so not a Tesla compressor) to work slightly like a compressor.
So will it extracts all kinetic energy from the gasses and builds up pressure in the center. Maybe it needs some guidance for the flow in order to work as a compressor.

The opposite is a (standard) bladed turbine. It needs static pressure and converts it into flow. (Yes I know it also benefits from incoming flow).

So what to think of the combination (in order) PJ-Tesla turbine-Bladed turbine? 8)

Fedde
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PyroJoe
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by PyroJoe » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:47 pm

Pressure is key, whichever path taken!

How or If you couple mechanical stuff onto that built up source is a different story.

How the build up is achieved is yet another story.

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vturbine
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by vturbine » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:02 am

Well, wish it could be, as well,
But:

I built a very small Tesla turbine. It needed 2 atm to spin, and reached 10,000 RPM at 4 atm. Efficient operation should have been at 80,000 RPM for that size machine!

Granted, I used plain bearings, and ball bearings would have helped, but still, I sure wouldn't have seen an 800% increase by switching out the bearings! If I could, it would have meant the torque (and power) was nil. Which, uh ir might well have been. :?

An industrial sized "real" Tesla needs about 200 PSI steam.

From what I've read pulsejets don't have anything like the pressures needed to run a Tesla above a very inefficient idle speed.

These machines are pressure turbines. Pulsejets should be pushing volume turbines, with high tolerance for velocity variation. Unfortunately, not like conventional axial gas turbines, either.
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paul fellows
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by paul fellows » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:55 pm

i know this is a bit of a chainge of topic
but
has anyone tryed a Wells turbine with a pulse jet :?:

a Wells turbine is a type of turbine that turnes in the same direction,witch ever way the gas flows through it :wink:
it was developed for use in colectin wave power.
two test tickles

PyroJoe
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Re: Tesla Turbine + Valveless

Post by PyroJoe » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:22 am

Wells Turbine looks interesting, could be useful in many applications. Ever amazed at the useful nature of a well designed airfoil. Thanks for contributing, this is a good place for the Hybrid designs. :)

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