Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Jets that defy normal classification

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Zippiot
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Zippiot » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:42 am

TY for responses, and now I know!

James do you have any more of his work Im having trouble searching patents. I find the ones label'd "weird pulsejet" are the most fun to explore.
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Irvine.J » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:04 pm

I love this one!
Attachments
03823554_001.pdf
Melenric Valveless
(407.14 KiB) Downloaded 306 times
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by larry cottrill » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:26 pm

Irvine.J wrote:I love this one!
James -

That's one I found back in 2000 when I was doing my own patent searches. There are lots of fascinating little details to this one -- I love the 'way cool' treatment of the intake flares!

L Cottrill

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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Viv » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:13 pm

larry cottrill wrote:
Irvine.J wrote:I love this one!
James -

That's one I found back in 2000 when I was doing my own patent searches. There are lots of fascinating little details to this one -- I love the 'way cool' treatment of the intake flares!

L Cottrill
Hi Larry

Yes we have it from that period too, he is one of the few people to consider high speed flight and its effects, check his other version with a valved engine too if you haven't already.

Viv
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Irvine.J » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:26 pm

Yeah Larry, seems every time I look at it there something more to see, I think the only thing I haven't seen in it is elvis :D
He's on the other patent :D

The depth of the intakes into the CC surprises me the most on this design.
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Zippiot » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:43 pm

Image

Easily my favorite pj found through patents, was under the "many strange valveless" on Leo's site
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by larry cottrill » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:25 am

Man, that is a nice one! Check out some of the cool details ... like the ram air collector / augmentor at the tail end. Bodine always seems to be good for some surprising little touches, things that look "gimmicky" at first glance but make sense when you think about them.

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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Viv » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:57 pm

Yes Bodine is worth reading, I used some of his work for the Inline pressure jet that I designed and later was called the Pulseram, but I deliberately only designed it as a burner for use on track side as a switch points heater, I was worried at the time it would be stolen and used as a flight capable engine by some people so I used some of Bodine's ideas and what Eugene Gluhareff had said to limit the combustion pressure, this meant it was only capable of making 4.5 pounds of thrust but have good combustion characteristics for low pollution and heat generation, incidentally it also lowers significantly the noise produced, a very worth while feature in a burner.

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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by luc » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:00 pm

I deliberately only designed it as a burner
Was suspected and later corrected with the latest TPRJ20-100 PulseRam as shown on the attached picture and for this is not the only one reccording at hand.
stolen
??????? .... Haaaaaa

Best said ... Financially supported and paid for by more then a million dollar in operations, developments and assets acquisitions costs including close to 3/4 million dollars in pure investments done by 19 shareholders at the time and local organizations STILL, ALL in all due legality and pure honesty ... All documents at hand.

Lucky for them, all flaws as stated above were found and corrected to later bring the product into a viable and commercial one.

Proofs, documents and data well recorded to detract any and worst "Detractors" for it is also guessed the next to come will be about "DAS program being limited or falls", but answers for this too is also at hand.

Such a "Pathetic" situation … So "Predictable" too …

Case rested …
Attachments
TPRJ20-100 PulseRam (TP 350 X 21).JPG
Last PulseRam engine version DAS reccording (Thrust at Top Right Screen)
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Mike Everman » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:05 pm

As interested as I am in the details of this conflict, you guys are going to have to take this offline. Attacks will not be tolerated, and this is not a forum to stage a fight. There is obviously a lot of history here, and it is none of our business. Nor should either of you discredit the other or jeopardize the reputation of the other here.
There are always going to be disagreements here, but they must be civil and technical.
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by luc » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:13 pm

Mike Everman wrote:As interested as I am in the details of this conflict, you guys are going to have to take this offline. Attacks will not be tolerated, and this is not a forum to stage a fight. There is obviously a lot of history here, and it is none of our business. Nor should either of you discredit the other or jeopardize the reputation of the other here.
There are always going to be disagreements here, but they must be civil and technical.
Fully agree and acknowledged ... Thanks.

Best regards,
Luc
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Viv » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:32 pm

The details are fully available any time you want Mike, but it will probably bore you terribly to hear what you probably already guessed (there in french too;-)

The big question for me is when is pressure gain going to be proven? I loved the explanation of what pressure gain is so I cant wait to hear about pressure loss? maybe a leak in the cc or some thing?

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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Mike Everman » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:21 pm

I suggest you both ignore the other in this forum. This sparring is tedious, and the multiple legal posts in multiple places is as well. Please don't use this place as a legal battleground, both of you! I am sorely tempted to lock this topic and be done with it.
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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Viv » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:51 pm

Mike Everman wrote:I suggest you both ignore the other in this forum. This sparring is tedious, and the multiple legal posts in multiple places is as well. Please don't use this place as a legal battleground, both of you! I am sorely tempted to lock this topic and be done with it.
Hi Mike

Yes very tedious, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6g ... re=channel

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Re: Pressure Gain Combustion (Now Proven)

Post by Viv » Sat May 23, 2009 6:08 pm

Nicole wrote:
Zippiot wrote:Sorry to steal the thread a bit Luc but, to Nicole:
Are you sure about the pj not working well under those conditions? Isnt induced flow how you start one and wouldn't it simulate dynamic conditions as if it were mounted on a plane of sorts...

And about the turbine not running well.
Yes the pulsing of the pj would mess with the flow but does the intake really force out that much air to destroy the flow off the comrpessor. Assuming that the pj and turbine have their own fuel source, why couldn't they run together?
Hi Zippiot,

Don't worry about the thread ;-)

A free turbine mounted on the exhaust of a pulse jet stay (as I'm concerne) a simple free turbine mounted on the exhaust of a pulse jet.

We know that a valveless pulse jet is a tube open at both ends. What's happens if you put some pressure in the middle of the tube? it rushes out of both ends, I'm right?


We design our engines to have an impedance to that flow at the intake so the preferential flow is out the exhaust (normally).
But put a free turbine attached to the exhaust of a pulse jet, why should the pressure rush out of the exhaust and have to do work turning the turbine, when it could also rush out of the intake and do nothing? It is only the impedance to flow that causes that pressure rise in the cc (the impedance is made up of a few things including acoustics), but the cc pressure will be low.

I guess thats one of the reasons John chose to use a valved engine for his turbo prop experiment.
The problem with a valveless engine it can't generate much in the way of differential pressure as its entirely dependent on the impedance of the intake to back-flow.
It's a basic thermodynamics problem.

You can find interesting those books about fluid & thermodynamics :

Applied Thermodynamics for Engineering Technologists (fifth edition) by T.D. Eastop and A. McConkey at Prentice Hall
Fluid Mechanics by Robert A. Granger at Dover Publications, inc.

This is why Mike wanted to load the compressor to make the turbine work as this would then show the pressure problem in the cc.

Hoping than its help you,
This post has a very useful reference to a thermodynamics book and an explanation of what actually happens when a turbine is fitted to the exhaust of a pulse jet.

Viv
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