F86-HPX-Sabre, By Rossco & IrvineJ

Rossco
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Post by Rossco » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:36 pm

James, and others trying to see that vid.
It will not let me download it with Explorer??? Ive got it happening through Firefox now without a problem. Another site sticking it to MS? why not!
Got it now.


HHHAAAAAAhahaha, James, your are THE legend!
That is awsome. Now i see why Larry comments on the "production"
Beautiful! Gracefull!! (well, yours...) Inspiring!!! (me to fly more carefully)

I give it to you mate, your the master. How you fly that thing, with "video cammera" in the other hand, whilst keeping an eye on the ground AND without my... aham, "flying" distracting you i dont know.

Nice landing too. If everyone is wondering on the zoom in/out madness during landing... well, that is shot real time, zoom in makes for a pretty picture of the plane coming gliding in, but not so good for seeing where the ground is for controling the land!

You only won by defalt! I call a remach. Just cause i tore my wing off doesnt count. Maybe i should build mine reaaaally strong? how about solid? ahhhh, i see more flying practise before you let me have a go of my new toy! Ill go practise using the throttle in the oposite direction now, havnt tried that! ha./
GOOOOD FUN!

Build pics to come.

Rossco
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Rossco
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Post by Rossco » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:39 am

Just cut and rolled the parts for the fuselage/couling.
There is a lot of work to be done in rolling over the joints for a smoothe join yet, I plan on having no sharp angle joints. Then its to be welded, intake slot cut and flared, engine mounting installed and fire up the first test run.

Rossco
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Rossco
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Post by Rossco » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:20 am

OK, first run in the Fuselage... IT WORKS!

The slot is cut much smaller than i thought it would need to be, and there is no flare rolled on the back edge yet to create the augmentor action.
I need to do some more thinking on this before commiting to a final size.

It starts straight up, i can breath a sigh of releif now, and continue with the design for the rest.

The intake slot sucks like mad, and the front mouth is also drawing plenty of air. The couling isnt getting too hot, so the excess heat of the engine is hopefully being somewhat used in the fuselage as a passive ram jet.
Very good day! On to proper mounting, details and building some wings for her.

We will get a video of it running in the fuselage soon, although there isnt much to see, as its no different to the photo with a heap of noise.
Maby i could take a video of me using it like a vacuume cleaner!

Rossco
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Engine-and-Fuselage.jpg
Engine-and-Fuselage.jpg (38.34 KiB) Viewed 2735 times
First-run.jpg
First-run.jpg (52.32 KiB) Viewed 2735 times
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Anders Troberg
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Post by Anders Troberg » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:43 am

I've seen the video now. It looks downright scary to fly, but I love it. Make sure you get a video of the real one as well before it becomes a 100 mph lawn dart!

Irvine.J
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Sabre

Post by Irvine.J » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:01 pm

Man, what a day it was. Rossco did an excellent job on that fuselage, for someone who says they hate mig welders LOLOLOL! Hopefully I'm convincing him otherwise, but i think the evidence is right there in a beautiful shiny looking fuselage. Great work rosco! Even more amazing, is not only that he can actually start it in there, is that it seems to run very happily. When running on the rosco, I grabbed the petrol blower and blew some ram air down there, big frequency drop, and the fuselage was cool enough to comfortably lay your hand on it. Some "crazy" for want of a better term pressure pulses and suction coming from the intake slot were noticed, and it really felt like it was sucking quite hard into the front of the fuselage, which is probably quite beneficial for cooling. .

I'm not sure if the extra restriction will change things when the nose goes on, though for what she is, its a damn fine looking piece of equipment, as rossco said to me the other day "Look at all those stainless fridges and toasters...WHAT A WASTE!!!!" LMFAO!!! Rossco damn good work... I also have your lighter if your looking for it :P
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larry cottrill
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Nice Job ...

Post by larry cottrill » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:54 pm

Yes, mates, that fuselage is a nice piece of work. Congatulations on your motor running well in there, too!

However, you should be satisfied with good cooling flow and not pin too much hope on passive ramjet action. You'll certainly pick off enough heat, but I don't think your shell has a tight enough fit to get the velocity up. In other words, I don't think your fuselage will develop any internal pressure due to the heat gain. Because the change in density will be small, you would need to make sure that the front entrance has somewhat smaller net area than the exit at the tail for the relatively minimal expansion to add momentum, and then I don't know how that would be affected by the mid-point intake slot, though admittedly you've done a good job of keeping that reasonably small.

Not trying to cast a wet blanket, just being cautious about something that is so far only speculated. Maybe it will work 1000 percent better than I think it will! At any rate, your fuselage should certainly finish up as a fine looking piece. If the wings and empennage come out that good, this should certainly be as fine a performer as you envision. Does the fuselage shell give you any idea how you're coming out for airframe weight?

L Cottrill

Rossco
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Post by Rossco » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:28 pm

Does the fuselage shell give you any idea how you're coming out for airframe weight?
Umm, yes, not as good as it should be!
I’ve been calculating at 0.3mm, which has proven not to be accurate enough.
I shall bite my tongue on mentioning a figure for now, ive some tricks to investigate first. Lets just say that im a little tight for budget on the remainder of gear, so I could lighten things up, or build the rest to come back to spec.
Everything counts doesn’t it... you just can't cut one corner without the weight noticing!

Rossco
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Anders Troberg
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Post by Anders Troberg » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:54 am

Have you considered adding an "afterburner" by injecting fuel into the exhaust? Not for thrust, just for show, and potentially for burning off fuel if you wan't to lose some excess weight before an early landing.

I think it would make quite an impression!

Irvine.J
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Burn Sabre Burn!

Post by Irvine.J » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:12 pm

Anders YES! As soon as we fired her up, and were sure she was running our minds went wild with creative pyromaniac inspiration! We discussed dumping our fuel directly onto the cc if we happened to flame out, or simply, just cause we can! (For a dump n burn!) I'm 99% positive it wont do any damage to the airframe whatsoever, being 100% stainless :) I must admit, when the blower was going, and the Hpx was in blowtorch mode... man, that was like a huge 3 foot pointy evil looking tail flame...un-bloody-real!
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larry cottrill
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Careful!

Post by larry cottrill » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:34 pm

James, Rossco et al -

You really need to be careful about what to do with unspent fuel - again, thinking about R/C and potential liability issues. Here's what I think would be one "worst case scenario" (this would happen after a six-week drought, of course):

From a fair distance out, you turn your plane about to bring it back toward you. It suddenly loses power, BUT NOT COMPLETELY, for whatever reason (partially injested hummingbird moth or something), leaving the engine still roaring but more-or-less "at idle" power. You still have control, but as you're struggling to bring her back to you in slow flight, you stall your plane and she starts to fall into thick woods with engine still running.

Now, what's the best you could do during the couple of seconds before she hits? Dump the fuel? Cut off the fuel? Jettison the tank? Some combination of these? Or what? And, assuming there's a "best practice" solution, how would you implement it with the equipment available?

You might think I'm being absurd with this, but this is EXACTLY the kind of scenario that gets favorite hobbies banned or highly restricted - the oddball incident that nobody thinks will ever happen. The guy who's forward looking enough to proactively deal with 99 percent of what COULD happen is the one who will ultimately win the public's favor and capture the market. And, save a lot of money in liability suits. And, ultimately, maybe save your hobby from being crushed by the heavy boot of government super-regulation.

L Cottrill

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Post by Anders Troberg » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:51 pm

Good point, Larry. It's not just a matter of remaining fuel, a red hot engine crashing into dry grass is a recipe for disaster.

Edit: Keeping the fuel in drop tanks, even if not droppable, will probably increase safety a lot. Even if the aircraft is torn to pieces, they have a decent chance of remaining intact and probably far away from the engine.

Perhaps it's best for winter flying. I bet that smooth body would make nice landings on snow.

Rossco
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Post by Rossco » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:40 pm

HAAAhahahaa, your all big girls!

1. I do take your suggestions/cautions relitively seriously, for an aussie.
2.
this would happen after a six-week drought
our droughts come in 7 year bouts or more. Its always drought here. Level 6 water restrictions now, not even alowd to drink it, Beer only.
3.
partially injested hummingbird moth or something
Scrub turkey, Cockatoo or Koala (after shortcutting through trees) maybe.
4. Thick woods... we dont do woods, its thin, dry scrub. Extreamly flamible, although the water isnt. Will be flying over the mud flats.
5. Winter flying... we dont do winter, 30deg C is the prefered climate to keep aussies. You tell winter from summer by wet and dry seasons. (dificult cause now its hot dry or cool dry)
6. SNOW! hahahaha, we dont do snow!

Dont worry about all that till we have the other hurdles sorted.
I thought we were being extreemly considerate by installing a OH-SH*# shoot.

Ive got some new pics... wings are happening now. Focus on the build for now, not what might go wrong.

Rossco

This part of the forum is having issues, ill post pics when i can.
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Rossco
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Post by Rossco » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:00 pm

OK, got the photo's ready.

The wing stubs turned out quite nicely.
They are only propped up in these shots. They do need some finishing, length and position needs to be finalised and the body needs full welding before they go on. Still, starting to look more like a plane now.

Rossco
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wing-stub-detail.jpg
wing-stub-detail.jpg (26.03 KiB) Viewed 2649 times
Front-wing-stubs.jpg
Front-wing-stubs.jpg (37.02 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
with-wing-stubs.jpg
with-wing-stubs.jpg (43.61 KiB) Viewed 2644 times
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Bent
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Post by Bent » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:12 pm

Awesome project Rossco and James, I wish I lived closer!!!
We don't have droughts here but all I drink is beer 8)
Im not sure where your skill level is at as far as tig welding but if I may...
when you actually weld the wing to the fusalage, tape off all openings and use purge gas to keep the bead from sugaring, this will add strength to the weld.
ok, back to the peanut gallery I go.

Jim Berquist
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F-86

Post by Jim Berquist » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:22 pm

Roscco! That is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aussy Awesome!

Jim
Last edited by Jim Berquist on Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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