PDE engine video

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Bruno Ogorelec
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re: PDE engine video

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:30 pm

Thanks, Jerry. I was not aware of turbocharger applications before the 1930s.

greg
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Re: re: PDE engine video

Post by greg » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:22 am

skyfrog wrote: I am thinking about your interesting idea, but to develop a working PDE might take many millions of US dollars, not to mention the danger inherited in the highly pressurized equipments. I am flea sized company, couldn't afford to do anything on this.
Millions of dollars? They bolted a grand-am cylinder head to four steel tubes. You don't even have to grind custom cams;

the automotive 'exhaust' valves are your purge, with your 'intake' valves for your air/fuel charge; And it runs on propane, available at most gas stations and grocery stores.

They documented the whole thing,
here's the PDF paper.

-- Greg
Last edited by greg on Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

Bruno Ogorelec
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Re: re: PDE engine video

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:43 am

greg wrote:Millions of dollars? They bolted a grand-am cylinder head to four steel tubes. You don't even have to grind custom cams
Yes. Greg. but what they've got would hardly power anything serious. My guess is that it's more of a concept demonstrator than a proper engine. look at the incredible bulk, for instance.

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re: PDE engine video

Post by Mark » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:41 am

Presentation is Everything

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re: PDE engine video

Post by dynajetjerry » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:23 pm

Mark and all you others,

While browsing, I finally saw the flecks of light to which you have referred. Though subtle, they can be seen even when the exhaust blasts almost fade into invisibility. I can't guess what they are, beyond thinking they might result from tiny leaks at the pipe joint. That seems to be unlikely because, to my eyes and with a very small image, they appear near all the exhaust tubes.

I was there and witnessed the "high speed taxi" tests shown in the video. Dr. Schauer admitted the weight of this "flight-ready" PDE is excessive, at about 840 lbs., but it can be reduced by use of dedicated, purpose-designed components. Best thrust has been 150 lbs. but during the videoed demo, it fell to about 100-120 lbs.

The PDE crew is still active at WPAFB but I don't know to what extent. I have a control-line speed friend who has borrowed my remaining Globe/Solar pulsejet so he can copy and/or modify it. He hopes to power a GO KART WITH TWO OF THEM!!! Scary, ain't it? I hope he abandons the idea before someone gets hurt.

Jerry

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re: PDE engine video

Post by Zippiot » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:16 pm

2 things:
1. crap they stole my idea that i never told anyone about a rotating pulsejet valve. i guess its better they do it cause i have no idea wut im doing...

2. has anyone thought of modifing a wankel rotary for use in a pde? they create superior pressure with fewer moving parts, the new rx8's motor "renesis" is made mostly of carbon fiber and its graphite counterpart. this not only reduces friction and weight, but no more heat dmg. it seems that with the valve setup on a rotary u dont need to modify anything except move the spark plug. another idea is the quasi-turbine, but that is years away from anything except go kart operation.
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Re: re: PDE engine video

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:23 pm

Zippiot wrote:2 things:
1. crap they stole my idea that i never told anyone about a rotating pulsejet valve. i guess its better they do it cause i have no idea wut im doing...

2. has anyone thought of modifing a wankel rotary for use in a pde? they create superior pressure with fewer moving parts, the new rx8's motor "renesis" is made mostly of carbon fiber and its graphite counterpart. this not only reduces friction and weight, but no more heat dmg. it seems that with the valve setup on a rotary u dont need to modify anything except move the spark plug. another idea is the quasi-turbine, but that is years away from anything except go kart operation.
I have proposed the Wankel as a rotary valve for a pulsejet, but not for a PDE.

The idea was to have two Wankel chambers -- a smaller one metering propane and a bigger one metering air.

When you use a Wankel chamber as a pump, rather than an internal combustion engine, you get two intake and two exhaust ports per chamber. That means that this twin-chamber assembly would be able to feed two combustors (two pulsejets) that would fire alternatively.

The two Wankel chambers would be sized relatively to each other so that the ratio of propane to air would be near-stoichiometric.

The whole point was that the propane chamber would be the driver of the entire assembly. Propane is under considerable pressure (vapor pressure is about 8 bar at room temperature) and could drive the whole thing like steam drives a steam engine. So, you would not need an external power source. Your fuel would be running the valve/metering unit. You would also be getting a bit of supercharging, as the air pump part could be driving air at above atmospheric pressure. The entire assebly could be plastic, as it would run a pretty low temperatures -- much lower than those in a Wankel engine.

The only real problem that I can see is that the assembly would effectively be tuned to a single frequency. Throttling would have to be done together with some kind of tailpipe extension, so that the tailpipe would shorten with more gas and lengthen with less gas, like a trombone slide. I have a pretty good answer for that problem, too, however.

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re: PDE engine video

Post by Mark » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:17 pm

Presentation is Everything

Zippiot
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re: PDE engine video

Post by Zippiot » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:03 pm

Wood a Gas: Serbian Yugo Powered by Wood-Gas
TAGS: Alternative Energy, serbia, wood-gas, yugo

Make magazine found an automotive project whereby some enterprising souls in Serbia refitted a Yugo with a powerplant that uses wood-gas for fuel, likely in an attempt to improve the car’s performance. The 125-year-old technology relies on incomplete combustion of wood to produce flammable gases hydrogen and methane that can be used to fuel the car. Ironically, even with all the extra hardware, the new powerplant shaved nearly two minutes off a stock Yugo’s zero-to-60 time.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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marksteamnz
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Re: re: PDE engine video

Post by marksteamnz » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:36 am

Zippiot wrote:Wood a Gas: Serbian Yugo Powered by Wood-Gas
TAGS: Alternative Energy, serbia, wood-gas, yugo

Ironically, even with all the extra hardware, the new powerplant shaved nearly two minutes off a stock Yugo’s zero-to-60 time.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are having a magnificent piss take. Look at the time 0 to 60 "shaved 2 minutes off it." Hello Even a Yugo can do O to 60mph in less 30 seconds
If you are interested google wood gas, gasifier, producer gas technology. Back during the second oil shock a bunch of us worked on them. Stinking, filthy, lousy p.o.c's, miserable btus per cubic meter and the octane is about 70. They are only for very very desperate times ie WW2 when petrol was simply not avaliable. The rough rule of thumb is half the power of the engine running wood gas vs petrol. The gas is mainly CO a bit of H2 all diluted with nitrogen.
Cheers
Mark Stacey
www.cncprototyping.co.nz

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re: PDE engine video

Post by dynajetjerry » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:30 pm

Hi, People,

More comments on this thread: During WW II, the Brits powered many of their small cars with gas-producing charcoal burners. Efficiency was not a significant factor because the times were so very desperate.

I think it was when Curtiss-Wright held all rights to the Wankel (in the U. S.,) that they worked on a diesel version. There were two complete rotor systems that were geared together; the larger pumped air into the smaller and the smaller actually fired and generated the power. It had been found that Wankel-type rotaries could not seal well enough to generate the very high "cylinder" pressures so necessary for true diesel operation.

A final note: Felix Wankel's original rotary design was intended as an air pump! It was later that his mechanism was modified to become a producer of power.

Jerry

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re: PDE engine video

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:07 pm

Here's a really nice truck powered by wood gas.
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hinote
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Re: re: PDE engine video

Post by hinote » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:13 pm

Bruno Ogorelec wrote:Here's a really nice truck powered by wood gas.
Talk about pride of workmanship--that thing is a work of art!!
Bill H.
Acoustic Propulsion Concepts

".......some day soon we'll be flying airplanes powered by pulsejets."

Eeselo6

Post by Eeselo6 » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:44 pm


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