Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

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luc
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Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by luc » Tue May 01, 2012 9:42 pm

Internet Rules are changing ... And you can no longer write all you want or feel ...

Looking for test stand topics to help centralize the topic and help Mike, ... I came accross this ;
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5693&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... and#p68587
A perfect example of "What Not To Do" ... And here's a few similar examples why not too ...

Last week, there was a news paper article, followed by a TV show, talking about two women that Bitched on their Facebook Wall to Wall, agains a car garage for bad repair services. Although it seems they were right in their facts and pretentions about this garage and service not being that good (i.e. : Repairing a Volvo with non Volvo parts from what it seems), the garage owner brought the case to court and the two ladies were found responsable with a 10,000 $ fine, for bad comments that stayed online 3 days and viewed by 46 peoples.

In resume ... Bad comments (And thrust me they were not that arshh and bad, for I saw the court ruling) + 3 days public availability + 46 viewers = 10,000 $ fine. That's a dear price to pay for being to "Emotional".

Here's another story, but this one more for Blogs, Forum owners and Moderators ...

Few months ago, it costed Canoe 107,000 $ in fine to the benefit of a ladie lawyer that was diffamed on Canoe's blog. To sumurize, the court came to the conclusion that although Canoe was not the diffamation's originator, but came from some members and some anonymous (Anonymous no longer offers protection, well, not for the owners and moderators anyway), it was Canoe's and moderators responsability to immediatly "Delete" the diffamaing text as they witness it. Canoe was basically found responsable for not taking action against diffamation and/or bad comments on their Blog site. Here is the article ... http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actual ... riveau.php (Sorry it's in French ... :( ).

So ... Write or Wrong, True or false in what you think and write on Internet, has no meaning in court (We are not talking about a "Public" figure here) ... You just can't spread your problems, opinions or emotions all you want over Internet, without being "Responsable", and as the new wave or fashion seams to demonstrate.

From plenty of readings, more and more court cases rulings demonstrate that "If one did indeed published bad comments or diffaming contents", they are now looking at ; 1) The content, 2) The time it was available to the public, 3) The number of viewers, 4) The intention behind the publishing (Accidental or Intentional) ... And 5) Did you as Owner and/or moderator, took actions against it?.

Now, some will comment ... "Yes, but that's for Canada" and somehow true. But keep in mind there are great legal similaritude between the two countries that more and more tence to follow each others (I don't know about other countries) ... The new "Don't write all you want Internet or be sorry wave" spreading all over.

P.S : Here's a hint : Write or Wrong ... Writing Bech Technology to be a Fraud ... IS deffamation ... Including the liability it bears ... And for this Forum for not removing the threads ...

I hope this helps, the motivation is TOTALY "Informative" and hope it's appreciated ... ;-) ... And watch these fingers from now on ... :wink:
Luc
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metiz
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by metiz » Tue May 01, 2012 10:26 pm

There is a law in the US at least, called SLAPP that prevents companies claiming defamation whenever they see a bad review or something alike
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by luc » Tue May 01, 2012 10:57 pm

metiz wrote:There is a law in the US at least, called SLAPP that prevents companies claiming defamation whenever they see a bad review or something alike
Maybe you're right, I don't know ... I'm not in USA.

But you will agree with me there is much difference between a "Review" or "Critics", otherwise all movie star would then end-up in court ... And "Diffamation" or "Insultes" or "Accusations".

There is much difference between saying for axemple; "This actress or actor to my opinion, was not at her/his best in this movie" and "This actress or actor was so stupid and idiots in this movie". In the first example we are refering to an "Opinion" or "review", and in the other exemple it is literly public "Insultes".

As there is much difference between saying for axemple; "It was discovered this or that minister or state gouvernor used public funds to pay for his vacations" and "This minister or gouvernor is a fraud or fraudulous for using public funds for his vacations". In the first example we are refering to a "reported fact", no insinuations or accusations made, where is the second exemple it is literly public "Accusation" and "Discriditing". What happens to the publisher if for this case, the findings or allegations are wrongs or from rumors from rumors from rumors ... Our publisher is then in deep troubles.

More and more in today's society, accusations and jugments are reserved to courts and juges ... Not us nor not even news papers, for they are the first one to be very very carefull of what they write.

But heyyy ... No intention to create a debate with my previous. I just came accross something today and from I've seen last week on TV and my taugh was just to inform ... Especially Mike and the moderators so they don't get into bad situations with the new ongoing wave.

As society evolves and becomes less tolerant on some issues, we have to do the same and change our ways. And if after this, Pulse-Jets.com become 0 tolerant over such matter, well that's perfect and I have contributed so it becomes better ... :wink:

I'm confident Canoe wished they had a member like this warning them "Heyyy ... watch this ..." before ending paying 107,000 $
Luc
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metiz
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by metiz » Tue May 01, 2012 11:10 pm

Your first example is still an oppinion and therefore protected by 1st amendment. I can say (in my oppinion) "actor x sucks monkey balls" and still be protected by the first amendment (asuming I lived in the US of course, but the Netherlands has similar rules)

The second example makes unverifiable claims ment to defame the minister and is therefore NOT protected by the first amendment
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by luc » Tue May 01, 2012 11:22 pm

metiz wrote:Your first example is still an oppinion and therefore protected by 1st amendment. I can say (in my oppinion) "actor x sucks monkey balls" and still be protected by the first amendment (asuming I lived in the US of course, but the Netherlands has similar rules)

The second example makes unverifiable claims ment to defame the minister and is therefore NOT protected by the first amendment
Maybe ... But again, if your comment "Actor x sucks monkey balls" is directed to your friends having seen the same movie, then you're probably correct pretending to your opinion. But if on the other hand you've created web page on this "Actor X" and use the same comments, then, Actor X could come back on you over your "Intentions" (i.e. : Publically discredite Actor X).

Some will say "Quantify the words" ... :wink: ... Courts now seems to "Quantify the Spread & Intentions".

Anyway ... It is my opinion Pulse-Jets.com would be best and better without such ...
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metiz
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by metiz » Tue May 01, 2012 11:28 pm

When I create a website dedicated to let everyone know actor x sucks monkey balls, then that website has the sole purpose to smear actor x's reputation and is PROBABLY no longer protected by the first amandment. (I guess it depends on what judge you get)

*edit* but yes, you are right that no-one wants a smear campaign, protected or not. It's just not very nice :)
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by luc » Wed May 02, 2012 12:05 am

metiz wrote:*edit* but yes, you are right that no-one wants a smear campaign, protected or not. It's just not very nice :)
And in true honesty with you Metiz, I will share that I'm not an "Eric Beck" fan at all. him and I always seems to butting our heads every times we talk jet engines, altough I respect the guy and think he does too.

But being fair from shin to bones, I just have to say not only I disaproove such public comments, but also the fact that it was left there unattended.

Whatever Eric and others are in a verbal fight or not really does'nt matter to me for all I care, other then thinking about Pulse-Jets.com, Mike or the Moderators taking appropriate actions for their own sake.

As I said above, the Internet world is changing and we must follow. In fact, just a few months ago, there was that young student girl that comited suicide after months of intimidation and social networth bitching and diffamation.

Whatever it is Eric vs Student on Pulse-jets.com or Student(s) XYZ vs Student A over Facebook, makes no difference other then the media used and there is just no more tolerance for this.
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by Mike Everman » Wed May 02, 2012 8:48 pm

I deleted that thread, but there actually was a point to leaving such things there. I leave it there when there are two sides to the story, and when the injured party has explained themselves, made it right or publicly disagreed with the complaint and shown us why. I wouldn't let it sit if Eric hadn't made several efforts to show the world that he had done what he thought was right, and I had encouraged him to set it straight for all to see.
I've been less than diligent when it comes to the actions or inactions of Bruce Simpson, but have nonetheless removed some of those threads too, even though it seems they have valid complaints, and in some, again, Bruce made an effort to explain himself. I can't defend him in any sense, but step in if it stops being civil. I cannot be his judge and jury. for all we know, the complaints about him represent less than a percent of his customers. How can we know how much business he's doing?

Luc, you may just be about to piss me off by repeatedly trying to be my conscience! I've got a good one already. I may not see everything and may need alerting at times, but then I will do what I think is right, regardless of the risks you think I'm taking. No need to PM me.
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luc
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by luc » Wed May 02, 2012 10:49 pm

Mike Everman wrote:Luc, you may just be about to piss me off by repeatedly trying to be my conscience! I've got a good one already. I may not see everything and may need alerting at times, but then I will do what I think is right, regardless of the risks you think I'm taking. No need to PM me.
Heyyy ... Heyyy ... Heyyy ... Relaxe Mike ...

I was not trying to be your concience at all, other then recognize you're very busy and maybe not aware of all the changes going on with Internet. I was just trying to warn and cover your *** ... PERIOD ...

But now being very sorry the way you see this or take it (Am I really surprised in fact? ... Naaaaa ... Not really), Thrust me next time I will just shut-up and leave it to your "Conscience" ... As you say.

And while we are at it ... Sorry, but NOOO you did not always take "Actions", me being a perfect example, for on many occasions, you've demonstrated being more and/or eigger jumping the guns on me, the message above being a perfect example of it ... Although ME Just Trying To Help. Sorry Mike if I'm not that good sorting out forums ... :wink: I guess some peoples are cheap to "Buy" out.

And you're saying "You're Pissed???" ... Yeaaaaa ... Right ... I guess you should more then I should ... Right????.

And in fact, I will strongly advise you to take what I've posted above very very seriously, because NEXT TIME, there might not be a BORDER seperating you with the NEXT guy, and you might your turn, have to deal with your own "Mme Corriveau" ... For taking no actions.

Having tried to gently and politly tell your and warn you "Heyyyy ... Ba carefull", which obviously did not work ... So I will tell you STRAIGHT that ... The Canadian / USA border DID save you one ... So FIGURE the rest out ...

But Heyyyyy .... I'm sorry and appologize for the inconviennients Mike ...

Next time I will just shut-up .... SIT ..... And WATCH ... :wink:
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by Mike Everman » Wed May 02, 2012 11:10 pm

Sorry about that. Just me being pissy. That's a perfect example of civil discourse, where someone says something not so nice or justified (me in this case), and the person (you) says "hey sorry, didn't mean what I said it that way" and then everyone apologizes and moves on, instead of starting a flame war.

Please do continue to let me know if the law changes, if you are still inclined to protect me from myself.

As to you and Viv, it certainly was not my choice that you guys fought on my forum, but being friendly with both, and both saying they've been wronged publicly here, I let you both say what you wanted, and to this day do not know which is the bad guy. I suspect neither, truth be told. Good partners are tough to come by and keep during good and bad times. Good people disagree.

For the record, I did remove Viv's signature link to the defamatory site he made. I should check if it came back. I did try. It's a bit disturbing that I would have been in trouble because of you two if this were a Canadian site.
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by luc » Thu May 03, 2012 12:20 am

Anyway ... This is gone the wrong way, and I'm the first not being that good with words some times.

Again, my only goal here was just to advise peoples that "Things are changing for Internet", well, at least here in Canada and the Corriveau case and many others being not only good examples, but clear indicators we can no longer write all we want over the Web.

Being truefull to who I am and honest, I will admit that if Pulse-Jets.com would have been a Canadian Site, Hmmmmmm ... Some serious letters would have been sent. But I also thrust Mike and Moderators to be intelligent peoples so all would end in the shell.

Lets all be intelligent using the above in a most positive matter, all of us becoming better to make this site the best one of all ... :wink:

And all my appologies for you Mike if somehow my words were offensive to you. I really didn't mean to hurt you or assuming you were not doing a good job.

Again, my goal was just to help and advise, and I will continu to do so in a spirit of keeping Pulse-jets.com the best jet engine site in the world.

Good night,
Luc
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by Mike Everman » Thu May 03, 2012 3:31 am

Naw, I was just being a jerk.
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Re: Internet ... You can't write all you want ...

Post by luc » Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 am

Mike Everman wrote:Naw, I was just being a jerk.
Naaaaa ... I don't agree with you ....

If you ever watch JI-Joes when a kid, you will remember there slogan ; Knowing ... Is aft the battle ... :wink:

Now, how can someone battle some thing, when he does know ...

Thomas D'Ansèmbourg wrote in one of his book and I quote ;

For our world to become better, we need to change our countries ...
For our countries to become better, we need to change our families ...
And for our families to become better, we need to change Our Self first ...
And to change our self, we need to remain "Humble", accept who we are and learn from it ...


So, taking your own comment about your self, I would say you're a very "Humble" person and a very good one too ... :wink:

Have a very nice day Mike,
Luc
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