Odd childhood memories

[larry cottrill]

Thanks, Simon. I agree, that was a pretty good run together. A rollicking good joke from your priest friend, too -- a really good laugh when I hit the punch line.

No, if people's beliefs are really secure, there's no well-wrought argument that's going to change them. That brings us back to experience. But not the kind of experience we started out discussing -- stuff that's expected if you're going to 'fit in'. An "unbeliever" doesn't WANT to fit in if you have to indulge in an exercise in "peculiarities", so nothing like that will do.

Jesus said "If I am lifted up, I will draw all men to myself." About 99 percent of Christians misinterpret this to mean that if we exalt (or defend) him enough, people will want to "join up". But that verse has nothing to do with exalting him or proclaiming his greatness. The problem is pulling the verse from its clear context. The correct rendering includes the line that follows this (Cottrill Paraphrase):
"If I am lifted up off the earth, I will draw all men to myself." And he said this to reveal the way he was going to die.
You come to Christ the moment you really believe he died as he did, just for you. The realization of the kind and intensity of that love is simply irresistable.

But here's a problem: for us 'moderns', the death of Christ has become an artistic cliche; we've all seen it on crucifixes, in classic paintings, even in Hollywood movies. An intellectual "unbeliever" is pretty unlikely to be impressed by this, because it's easy to come up with perfectly logical reasons why this is no different from, say, a Wagner opera of the Ring cycle, or any of a thousand other "mythical" representations. If his love is real, it still has to appear in a "real life" form that we can get our arms around for it to be actually believable. And this is the great failure of modern Christians, at least in the West.

He also said, "Greater love has no man than this: that he lays down his life for his friend." Not for his believing friend; not for his faultless friend; not for his friend who always agrees with him about everything; but for ANY friend. We are called (and that means commanded) to lay down our lives daily for our friends. I have seen that in the Christian community, over and over; it sounds to me like you have not. You simply have no reason to believe in the love of Christ as a reality if you haven't seen that love lived out toward you by someone you have come to know and trust. I am convinced that once that really happens, the truth of it is absolutely unquestionable. But that is exactly what most modern Christians are just too lazy or too self-absorbed to do; that kind of love is not a feeling, it takes real effort, it is fraught with dangers and difficulties. Not the least of which is that you always suspect that your Christian friend has an ulterior motive -- and of course, you're quite right! But if he really is what he claims to be, that motive flows completely from the love he has already experienced on the receiving end himself. Unfortunately, that's a lot more than exchanging a few words over a forum can show.

Peace, my friend!Thank you for your gentleness and honesty in discussing all this.

L Cottrill

[Mark]

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/va ... ace_aliens

"Father Funes said that just as there existed a "multiplicity of creatures on Earth", so there could exist "other beings created by God, including intelligent ones. We cannot place limits on God's creative freedom." St Francis of Assisi had described our fellow creatures on Earth as our brothers and sisters, "so why can we not also speak of our extra terrestrial brothers? They too would be part of Creation". He said that aliens, like humans, would be able to benefit from the redemption offered by Jesus Christ and "the mercy of God".
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 926487.ece

"Pope John Paul declared in 1992 that the ruling against Galileo was an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension."
The Vatican Observatory has been at the forefront of efforts to bridge the gap between religion and science. Its scientist-clerics have generated top-notch research and its meteorite collection is considered one of the world's best.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNDA ... wD90KVBC00

[Mark]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0&q=&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9&q=&hl=en