JET FUEL-No, unfortunately not Moonshine!

[Irvine.J]

Hi all, I have a query about using deep fryer oil mixed in varied quantaties for my engines. Simply put, my crazy father called yesterday, and it seems for one reason or another has been storing somewhere near 60 litres of deep fryer oil including peanut oil, canola oil, and olive oil, all which has been cooked the hell out of for deepfried onions, chips, potatoes, you name it.
If i remember correctly if you cook oil in a deep fryer for long enough over time chemical changes take place converting it into something very similar to diesel fuel. I went and picked it up and ran some peanut oil through a coffee filter, (took nearly an hour to strain 1 litre, though its nice and gunk free! Can anyone clarify or explain a little more on this topic? I have also several litres of ethanol, which I get provided free of charge from some uni buddies, which I thought should make for an interesting mix. I've also got a little system I've devised how to use my little air compressor to pump it through at a controlled and vapor state... so just wondering if oil, cooked at high temp for long periods becomes more fuel like, and wether i'm just barking at perverbial shadows.
Thanks,
Jimbo.

"I'm not late boss, theres no such thing as time... you made it up one day."

[Anders Troberg]

I've heard people who run diesel cars on that stuff. Apparently it works nicely, although you need to switch to diesel when starting the engine when it's cold.

Btw, the same goes for the oil used to heat houses, it also works as a diesel substitute.

[Jonny69]

Yes, fresh oil is very similar to diesel calorifically and most diesel engines will run perfectly on fresh or used filtered oil. It is a lot more viscous so you have to be sure your fuel pump is up to the job and be aware that a lot of newer 'common rail' diesel engines will get damaged by the thick oil.

With regards to cold starting, the oil can get very thick due to a high glycerine content and the glycerine will start to crystallise. The way round this is to use a tank heater which warms the fuel before it goes through the pump.

[Irvine.J]

I'm thinking of using a 20 dollar fishtank airator pump for my next experiment, as well as a little 12v car compresser you can use to pump up tires. (Though for the 12v car compressor i'll be using it as a vacuum feed.) i'll let you know how it goes, as long as its not too viscous, I should get a few hours out of the fish airator, though I'll try and lean out the mix a little. I'll let you know how i go.

[Jim Berquist]

Fuel Oil works in heating systems and other applications. If Sprayed or misted. Burn is hot and most hot. Fry grease is in the same area! Works in a Diesel via injection and compression. If you could ignite it as a mist That would be like JP-4 Not? How are you going to ignite it. Glow Plug, Arc as spark plug? In a P.J your not going to have the compression! `


Jim

[hinote]

Fuel Oil works in heating systems and other applications. If Sprayed or misted. Burn is hot and most hot. Fry grease is in the same area! Works in a Diesel via injection and compression. If you could ignite it as a mist That would be like JP-4 Not? How are you going to ignite it. Glow Plug, Arc as spark plug? In a P.J your not going to have the compression! `


Jim

I doubt if compression is the issue.

The 3 factors most likely (IMO) to influence success in fueling a PJ with these light oils is:

1. Flash point, and getting the oil heated up to near this value.

2. Atomizing the oil finely enough to get the droplet size as small as possible. This demands high delivery pressures to the nozzle (like a diesel engine).

3. Mixing length. Maximizing #1 and 2 above will minimize the problem--but it could be the single flaw that keeps it from working.

I'm betting Mr. M. (and possibly others) may have more exact observations to make on this.

[targa2]

The high Glycerine and viscous quality of vegtable oil does create problems if you are attempting to run it in your diesel.. filtered oil can be used if you have a seperate tank with a thermostatically controlled heater and a switching system to first start up on regular diesel then switch to veg oil when optimum temp is reached.
Before the engine is shut down you have to switch back and purge with regular diesel or else end up with a gummed up fuel system and an expensive repair... Too risky.

I have been running my new Ford on Bio diesel for 6 months with no problems.

Just regular "chip shop oil" which has gone thru a fairly simple processs of stirring, heating, and methanol addition which seperates out the glycerine which can then be tapped off leaving a oil based fuel which can be put straight in the fuel tank and used just like regular diesel.
I noticed straight away a more responsive engine, quieter and improved fuel economy.

Havnt tried Bio with my P.J's yet but it's got me thinking..!!!!!

T2

[Irvine.J]

Race ya Targa2 muahahah :D !
Thanks for your information its been exceedingly helpful! Shall be an interesting experiment indeed. As for igniting it, well... I haven't really thought that far ahead, though, there is always the option of a firecracker down the tailpipe... as old grampa simpson said, "That'd get her goin" LOL , i'll try a variety of things see what happens.

[Eric]

An easy way to filter the frying oil faster would be to put line to your oil fill in your car and run it through the oil filter, then loop the oil to the fuel tank after it has went through the filter / enigne as a lubricant. :P

You can also run valveless pulsejets on McDonalds french fries, essentially a starch matrix soaked with fuel oil, quite possibly one of the easiest ways of converting liquid into a very high energy solid fuel.

[Irvine.J]

Eric your ingenuity once again astounds me, I like the oil filter idea very much, and I have access to an old bomb of a car (1974 Toyota Corrola) that will be perfect for it. Also, I sent you a msg about my fuel tanks to check it out when you get a chance. I have the standard primus cylinders ready if I that Gasmaster wont work.

[Irvine.J]

Ok so i've filtered 4 litres of cooked oil through the old bomb and its still running! :D (1974 Corrolla)
I have a large container of solid Sodium Hydroxide crystals, the oil, but as for the methanol.... After some searching i've only been able to find Methylated spirits. Which 95% ethanol 5% methanol... I'm not sure if its safe or will produce the same reaction as the methanol will, i'm considering using it for a trial, but hope there is a chemist in the house. If its going to be exceedingly more dangerous then methanol i'll simply keep looking for straight methanol. Anyone got some chemistry knowledge?

[metheglin]

Some tips on biodiesel are available
[url="http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id24.html"]Here[/url]

Methanol is used as the fuel in Indy500 race cars. That might be a tip as to where to get some. Various race tracks use various fuels (like C4) so make sure it's methanol. Also, as it is a fuel, you can get significant quantity at reasonable prices this way.

[tufty]

Anyone got some chemistry knowledge?

I know enough to know that if a chemical reaction calls for methanol, it needs methanol and not something else that happens to sound a bit like it. Chemistry, not "random mixing".

Simon

[Irvine.J]

Lol tufty i'm not an idiot, I wasn't going to go randomly mixing the stuff without some careful research... I like my fingers and toes where they are... and the chemical reaction i'm after produces methoxide, ethanol won't do this, just got to find somewhere to get my hands on some. I should have been more clear and specifically say "Is there a way to seperate the two?" once combined. Thought it might have been pretty easy, but don't know.
Lol tufty.

[tufty]

Actually, I didn't mean it to come across that way, either.

Yes, it's easy enough to separate the two, you'd need a still. For what you'd get, and the - ahem - issues - with distilling it back out, though, it's gonna be a load easier to try and lay your hands on some methanol.

Not sure where you are, as metheglin points out it's used in race car engines, also you always used to be able to get it from model shops (glow fuel is methanol, oil and nitromethane), I used to be able to buy 5l of straight methanol over the counter as a kid, but them was older and more innocent days I think...

Try also some of the online biodiesel resources, they might well point you at suppliers in your area. It's probably worth noting that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel_production seems to imply that ethanol or methanol can be used with the same process, but that's wikipedia and it has been known to be wrong from time to time...

Simon