aberrant pop bottle fun

[WebPilot]

In my lifetime, between the damnable addicts, anarchist nut jobs, and gov't regulations, people have managed to suck the fun out of life.

That's why I was so impressed with this bottle experiment
and was lucky enough to get one trial on video.

I was interested in the fact that KMn04 was used as a propellant in the Me 163.

What makes you think it is not an oxidizer and H2O2 is the propellant?

-fde

[Dang911]

Water mixed with potassium permanganate alone, will not start the reaction. Potassium permanganate's main use is to filtering out iron in hard water. Aluminum is there only to provide higher burn rate, unless it plays a roll in the reactivity of the mixture. Sugar is the fuel. If I had to guess, its the sugar being dissolved in the water which makes the reaction start; that would make glucose. Glucose is very similar to Glycol, the only difference is Glycol has 4 more hydrogen's.

Glucose - C6H12O6
Glycol/Glycerin - C3H8O3

Later today I am going to go get 5lb's of potassium permanganate and I will post back with my results......

[Mark]

Another spontaneous combustion mix is the pool chlorine product sold at most stores. Mix it with any kind of oil and it will burst into flames readily. If you mix it with ammonium nitrate, it is a funny reaction, it starts popping like energetic popcorn, a lively demonstration.
I once put a bunch of piles of calcium hypochlorite and sulfur in the yard. When it started to rain, it lit them all off. And too, just mixing the sulfur with it will spontaneously combust, once I had some go off hours after I mixed it. On this occasion it wasn't so smart and I was new to the characteristics. I was very young and showed my brother this wide mouthed plastic jar the sulfur had come in and I had mixed in some pool chlorine powder. As soon as he unscrewed the cap and looked inside it flashed like a light bulb. So this is how I first learned this mix would flash all by itself. Another time I had taken to wrapping the mix in foil and then in electrical tape and tossing it into water puddles where it exploded. One time I could feel the aluminum wrapped wad and tape getting warm and I hurridly tried to wrap the last of the tape on before it was too late. It exploded and burned the side of my finger, but no permanent damage. Oh the things you do when you are a kid.
Mark

[Mark]

Another
http://chemlearn.chem.indiana.edu/demos/magiwand.htm

[Mark]

Hydrogen and chlorine explode in sunlight.
Mark
http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dolche ... em017.html

[WebPilot]

Paul,

After a little sleuthing, I find its role is not as an oxidizer
but rather as a catalyst.

Hmmm.

-fde

[Mark]

If you eyedropper some turpentine into a jar filled with chlorine gas, the drops will burst into flames.
Mark

[Mark]

The guy who perhaps first understood catalysts. My platinum catalyst lighters will light methanol and hydrogen spontaneously.
Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%B6bereiner%27s_Lamp
Another permanganate catalyst missile.
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/dsh/art ... -Hs293.htm

[steve]

Another spontaneous combustion mix is the pool chlorine product sold at most stores. Mix it with any kind of oil and it will burst into flames readily.
Mark

do you suppose that this could be used in a hybrid rocket engine?

[Mark]

Probably you could make a very sluggish rocket, but I don't think it would be worthwhile. Don't get me wrong, if you confined the combustion too much you could probably get an explosion with oil. I wouldn't want to premix it with anything though! It just burns vigorously if you pour oil, glycerin, Cox glow fuel, lots of things, but it takes a bit of time for the reaction to start, from several seconds to a minute. It makes a very intense pretty red flame though from the calcium. I remember that characteristic.
Mark
http://www.ukrocketry.co.uk/forum/lofiv ... /t923.html
http://images.google.com/images?q=calci ... a=N&tab=wi

[Dang911]

Well after a night out with my friends, I got out to a home depot to buy Potassium Permanganate, $18.00 for 5lb's (sand like) NOT BAD AT ALL. At home I had some ethylene glycol antifreeze, which I mixed in on a metal plate. Not two bad of a reaction, smoked within 15 seconds and ignited within 30. I'm not sure how pure this stuff is because it didn't make a huge purple flame, but that could also be because I'm using antifreeze. When I mixed in a little aluminum though, it made a nice poof. The product at home depot it literally called potassium permanganate!!!

Also, I tested my earlier reaction, mixing 50% potassium permanganate, 25% aluminum, and 25% sugar. It supposedly would ignite with contact with water. Indeed it did!!! Now I won't call it as vigorous as the other reactions, but it did manage to glow red hot for about 15 seconds.

Mark, that pool chlorine stuff you are talking about, what exactly is it?

[Mark]

If you grind the KMNO4 to a talc-like powder and GENTLY mix in some aluminum powder, you can put a drop of glycerin on top of it and it will detonate. Intimate mixing is key. I would use very small amounts, say a half teaspoon of each. I used a mortar and pestle to do this, one time it exploded on me and shattered both mortar and pestle. I read of a fellow doing the same with a large amount in a lab. It blew a hole through the top of his desk and the drawer below. It ripped the skin off his face and arms too. Lots of skin grafts followed.
Be careful.
Manganese is somewhat toxic so avoid breathing the dust. You will notice it smells kind of sweet. A long time ago people soaked there foot fungus in a solution of KMNO4 but over time found this to be hazardous to their health.
Mark
http://www.manganismfyi.com/
PS I'd make certain my mortar and pestle was very clean, free of any previous chemicals. Probably a good idea to wear some face protection and gloves to be on the safe side. A careless mistake can cost you more than you want to pay. After awhile of making explosions, you might find pulsejets more challenging and entertaining. And those pool chlorine chemicals probably produce some very harmful gases too which is another turn off. Mix them with the wrong thing and who knows what deleterious gas might form.

[Dang911]

Just finished putting the hurricane shutters on......"bring it, Wilma"

The Potassium Permanganate isn't dangerous by itself though, right? If so I probably could hit it in my "chemical coffee grinder". I will, (as always) make sure to clean it very well, because I tend to use the grinder with sulfur the most, and as we know, sulfur doesn't mix with a lot of other things........

[Mark]

I would rethink the coffee grinder. I've used them to grind potassium nitrate and they corrode quickly. Even if you rinse it out, there may be a little sulfur that has collected around the rotor. With a mortar and pestle you can get it very light and fluffy. But again, never grind more than you want to blow up in your face. Where I made my mistake was tapping the edge of the mortar with the pestle to get the fine powder to fall to the bottom after I ground it enough to stick to the sides. You can grind KMNO4 safely by itself, I was risking it by integrating the aluminum powder intimately with the oxidizer. I took to using a brush to sweep the fine powder off the edges of the mortar.
What I do is form a depression in the ground and flatten the top of the permanganate/aluminum mix so the drop of glycerin won't roll off and the powder won't scattered when the detonation occurs. Another thing I have done is use a plastic soda bottle cap, the small ones about an inch wide. You can put the mix in there and stand back. Once I did a large amount of KMNO4 and Aluminum and the drop of glycerin to time delay the explosion. For the longest time, I saw first a wisp of smoke and then nothing, as if the glycerin was not going to get it. Then about a half minute later, eternity, I was wondering if it would be safe to approach it. It then went off like a canon, my windows rattled and a huge perfect smoke ring of a large diameter shot straight into the sky.
Just be careful.
Mark
PS When I was mixing the potassium permanganate and aluminum powder, first I ground the permanganate to a fluffy dust and THEN pressed in the aluminum powder, making sure it was mixed well. This activity gave me a few gray hairs, aluminum is a very energetic metal when provided a strong oxidizer like KMNO4.

[Al Belli]

Hi Mark,

The heat of formation of aluminum oxide is 389,000 Cal. !!!

That is why aluminum powder is used in the solid propellant mix for the space shuttle solid boosters.

This is also why the thermite reaction yields sufficient heat to produce molten iron.

Al Belli