$200 Hang Glider

[steve]

Now that I am going to have access to the very nice machine shop on campus, I have decided to start thinking about some potential projects.
eventually I would like to build things like tesla's valvular conduit using a CNC mill, but for now I'd like to try something easier- like a hang glider!

the design will be fairly straightfoward- built mostly out of 1 inch electrical conduit (unless I can get some inexpensive aluminium tubing) and supported by 1/8 in cable. the wing fabric will probably be tarp unless I find something better and equally inexpensive.

I won't be able to start construction for some time, but I do have a lot of design work to do before then- and that is where I could use some help.

It is likely that I could design and build the thing completely unaided, but I would end up making A LOT of adjustments after the first couple of test flights and I would prefer it to fly perfectly right out of the box so to speak. Any dimentioned drawings, 3 view drawings, pictures of obscure details in the designs- any pictures really would be very helpfull since my internet searches have yielded supprisingly little information on the earlier designs.

when complete it will probably look very similar to the attached picture

[Hank]

Steve- 1" electrical conduit is seamed. Do not use it. You want 1 1/8" duraluminum. The leading edge thickness contributes to the total lift of the wing, as well as load support.
I've been flying light foils since 1974.
By 'tarp' what do you mean?
Let's keep this post going.
Find yourself a well stocked craft supply store. It is a great place to pick up information as well as smart women.

Regards, Hank

[paul skinner]

Steve, you might want to check out these guys.

http://home.att.net/~m--sandlin/bug.htm


My uncle built the Bug4 and flies it out of the Collingwood gliding area. You should be able to put one together for under a grand. And best of all, it adapts well to a small motor.

Enjoy

Paul.

[El-Kablooey]

If you like Steve, when I get a chance I will set up my dad's glider and take all the the measurements you like.


sounds like an interesting little project! Just don't get yourself hurt. Better do lots and lots and lots of training flights until you have faith in both the glider and yourself.

[Bruno Ogorelec]

Steve, I am disturbed to read your posting even if I take it as a joke. You're a pilot -- you should be aware of aircraft grade materials, parts, fastenings etc. You probably know how expensive they are and you probably know why.

Those reasons apply to hang-gliders five-fold, because a hang glider is a structure taken to the bare bones, with nothing in the way of structural redundancy. A bolt goes, you go. A wire goes, ditto. And, they do go -- even the expensive aircraft-grade ones.

Also, never, ever, make a mistake of not going to a flying school first. Hang gliding is quite counter-intuitive in a number of ways and learning about them on your own skin is vastly more expensive than a hang-gliding school.

I think hang-gliding is absolutely the next best thing after sex and art, but it does require quite extensive preparation if it's not to be a death trap.

[El-Kablooey]

The only hang-gliding I have done is a few feet from the ground on a few nice slopes, but I felt like controlling the thing came naturally. Weight shifting is probably the easiest way to control a small aircraft. My biggest problem was wanting to stall too early, landing a foot from the ground is not fun.

[steve]

Steve, I am disturbed to read your posting even if I take it as a joke. You're a pilot -- you should be aware of aircraft grade materials, parts, fastenings etc. You probably know how expensive they are and you probably know why.

Those reasons apply to hang-gliders five-fold, because a hang glider is a structure taken to the bare bones, with nothing in the way of structural redundancy. A bolt goes, you go. A wire goes, ditto. And, they do go -- even the expensive aircraft-grade ones.

Also, never, ever, make a mistake of not going to a flying school first. Hang gliding is quite counter-intuitive in a number of ways and learning about them on your own skin is vastly more expensive than a hang-gliding school.

I think hang-gliding is absolutely the next best thing after sex and art, but it does require quite extensive preparation if it's not to be a death trap.

Perhaps I should clarify then-
I don't intend to take this thing higher then 10 feet or so off the ground. I will be launching from the sand dunes at a local beach and gliding down to the water. Obviously if I were to fly any higher then that I would want to go all out in terms of materials- hell I'd even use titanium if that were finantially practical.
the duraluminium tubing that hank mentioned sounds like the best material choice, but I cant seem to find any information about it on the net. If it is inexpensive enough, then I will seriously considder using it- but since I'm not working right now my budget is very limited- hense the attempt to build the glider for under $200.

I don't think I have enough faith in my abilities at this point to fly in something that I built from scratch unless the altitude is extremely low and from which I can fall without getting injured- my main focus for this project is the design and construction aspects, so if I get to fly it at all that would be a bonus!

By 'tarp' what do you mean?

http://www.discountcoversandtarps.com/b ... lines.html
again, any advice on alternate (but inexpensive) materials would be appreciated!

If you like Steve, when I get a chance I will set up my dad's glider and take all the the measurements you like.

Hallelujah!!!! That would be fatastic!! then I could generate some CAD drawings to work from, etc. etc......

[Mark]

Just some early days.
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/crerar/ex ... nute5.html

[paul skinner]

Steve, I am disturbed to read your posting even if I take it as a joke. You're a pilot -- you should be aware of aircraft grade materials, parts, fastenings etc. You probably know how expensive they are and you probably know why.

Those reasons apply to hang-gliders five-fold, because a hang glider is a structure taken to the bare bones, with nothing in the way of structural redundancy. A bolt goes, you go. A wire goes, ditto. And, they do go -- even the expensive aircraft-grade ones.

Also, never, ever, make a mistake of not going to a flying school first. Hang gliding is quite counter-intuitive in a number of ways and learning about them on your own skin is vastly more expensive than a hang-gliding school.

I think hang-gliding is absolutely the next best thing after sex and art, but it does require quite extensive preparation if it's not to be a death trap.

Perhaps I should clarify then-
I don't intend to take this thing higher then 10 feet or so off the ground. I will be launching from the sand dunes at a local beach and gliding down to the water. Obviously if I were to fly any higher then that I would want to go all out in terms of materials- hell I'd even use titanium if that were finantially practical.
the duraluminium tubing that hank mentioned sounds like the best material choice, but I cant seem to find any information about it on the net. If it is inexpensive enough, then I will seriously considder using it- but since I'm not working right now my budget is very limited- hense the attempt to build the glider for under $200.

I don't think I have enough faith in my abilities at this point to fly in something that I built from scratch unless the altitude is extremely low and from which I can fall without getting injured- my main focus for this project is the design and construction aspects, so if I get to fly it at all that would be a bonus!

By 'tarp' what do you mean?

http://www.discountcoversandtarps.com/b ... lines.html
again, any advice on alternate (but inexpensive) materials would be appreciated!

If you like Steve, when I get a chance I will set up my dad's glider and take all the the measurements you like.

Hallelujah!!!! That would be fatastic!! then I could generate some CAD drawings to work from, etc. etc......

:)

There's no such thing as "inexpensive" when it comes to flight. Even home builts are made from T6066 (or T7075) for a reason. It's unlikely to fail 25ft up and kill you.
Also, make sure you either TIG the gussets or put it together with aircraft bolts. Don't go with Home Depot bolts----unless you have lots of life insurance. :)

Not to nag, but Bruno's right. Breaking your back because you cheap out on the structure won't seem like a good idea post accident.

You know?


We might be nagy old farts, but we nag because some of us have already farked up at least once, and want to pass along the correct info.

Later,

Paul.

[steve]

Just out of curiosoty- has anyone here heard of the bamboo butterfly?

http://www.jonh.net/~jonh/mangrove/publ ... bd51).html

that's partly why I was confident that conduit would be more then adequate for this project.

[marksteamnz]

Please listen to Paul and Bruno. You are asking to give yourself a lot of serious hurt. Early hang gliders like the bamboo butterfly, the Seagull, the conduit condor etc had bad failings. If dived past a certain point they are unrecoverable, the reflexed trailing edge of modern gliders has saved a lot of lives. If you can guarentee not to fly higher than 10 feet maybe, but there is always that gust that suddenly has you at 20 feet........
The diameter of the tubing is very related to stiffness. 1" steel tube is very much less stiff than a 2" piece of bamboo.
When I was 16 (a long time ago) the hang glider boom hit here in New Zealand and I saw a lot of school mates badly hurt by poor performing gliders flown with no knowledge.

Just out of curiosoty- has anyone here heard of the bamboo butterfly?

http://www.jonh.net/~jonh/mangrove/publ ... bd51).html

that's partly why I was confident that conduit would be more then adequate for this project.

[El-Kablooey]

Unlike some of the other fellows here, I'm with you Steve! I understand what you are wanting to do and it sounds like great fun to me, you are plenty young enough that crashing into the beach shouldn't do more damage than some really mean strawberries. I do think the conduit is a bad idea though, not only is it pitifully weak, it's heavy too! I bet if you look around carefully you could find some 2" aluminum scrap somewhere for cheap. Or maybe even ABS plastic pipe, it might be alright if you designed your frame just right. It might flex a little, but probably wouldn't just fold up on you like conduit would.

This sounds much safer than some of the crazy things some friends and I did when we were your age!

[paul skinner]

Unlike some of the other fellows here, I'm with you Steve! I understand what you are wanting to do and it sounds like great fun to me, you are plenty young enough that crashing into the beach shouldn't do more damage than some really mean strawberries. I do think the conduit is a bad idea though, not only is it pitifully weak, it's heavy too! I bet if you look around carefully you could find some 2" aluminum scrap somewhere for cheap. Or maybe even ABS plastic pipe, it might be alright if you designed your frame just right. It might flex a little, but probably wouldn't just fold up on you like conduit would.

This sounds much safer than some of the crazy things some friends and I did when we were your age!

I hope you're joking, cause I'm not laughing.

[El-Kablooey]

What??? It's not like he's wanting to go launch off a ramp! He wants to play at the beach, with a big kite he and his friends can catch a few feet of air with, down a sand dune! What's so insane about that?????????? Sounds like it would be alot of harmless fun. I think Steve has a good head on his shoulders. He's not gonna do anything stupid with it. Its probably safer than bungee jumping! It's safer than a hell of alot of things college kids are prone to do! Have you guys seen videos of those dudes on the beach with the monster control-line kites? They catch a good gust and jump 30 feet into the air, travelling a loong way down the beach before they touch down again, only hanging on to the control sticks.

[Hank]

Hello- I am familiar with the stuff you linked to:
http://www.discountcoversandtarps.com/b ... lines.html
It is a course weave. I wouldn't consider it for use, Steve.

I repeat my earlier advice. Go see someone who deals in fabrics. Ask them to see strapping while you're there. You'll need a harness.

I've considered PVC. It has too much flex.

There is no guarantee of just staying at ten feet, Steve. You wouldn't have that kind of control authority flying anything. One gust with a positive
angle of attack and the world becomes small, fast.