Bruce's new project

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Bruno Ogorelec
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Re: re: Bruces new project

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:55 am

JetSet wrote:ole' Brucey is going to try :P
Ah, yes. Sure.

BTW. Australia has places like that. I know it's a sore point in NZ and hesitate to bring it up, but would a NZ attempt performed in Australia count?

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by Stephen H » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:46 am

well i have thought about that one.. but i dont know the answer, but my guess would be no... there is the foxten straights, a few roads down south island that nobody goes down often, mabey a airforce runway

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by marksteamnz » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:29 pm

Disscussed in the past. The same places the existing NZ speed record has been set. Roads on the Canterbury Plains, Hauraki Plains or where the curent record was set on a road near Reparoa.........Hmm Not far from Bruce's last known address at Tokaroa.
Note we are not talking about the ultimate LSR just the NZ or the unclaimed PJ powered record.
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Mark Stacey
www.cncprototyping.co.nz

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Re: re: Bruces new project

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:42 am

Ben wrote:Why is his cart powered with two big Lockwoods?
A good question. I am not certain. I never found Bruce easy to fathom.

He was a very staunch proponernt of valved pulsejets for a very long time. I had long and temperamental debates with him over that. In the end, he accepted that the valveless was the way to go, but never said so explicitly. When he was making this transition, we were getting apart, so I didn't press him on that point. From that time on, the only engines he build that you could see were Lockwoods of various sizes.

If I were building big, I'd certainly go for something valveless even if I had a nice valved design, simply because big valve arrays are a big bother. Even the Argus valve plate worked relatively poorly in practice, and that one was designed and developed by a team of first-rate professionals with generous resources behind them.

But, I'd still be tempted to try the valved X-jet head layout on a big machine. Easier to do than the Argus type I'd say.

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by steve » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:02 am

Do you know how the so-called "X-jet" actually works? It's internal workings are something of a mystery to me since his website gave virtually no explination.
Image

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by pezman » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:13 am

I'm going to guess that it's a cousin to the Esnault-Pelterie engine, with four cylinders, a slightly different valve arrangement and w/o shared exhausts from the four cylinders.

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by ZSartell » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:02 am

I just thought I'd put this out for all to ponder if you havn't seen it already:

http://www.simplejets.com/
http://www.interestingprojects.com/

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by Mike Everman » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:37 am

I just took a look at your site, Zack. Nice work.
Mike
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re: Bruce's new project

Post by ZSartell » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:15 am

Thanks Mike.

That means a lot to me. It's hard to find people that don't tell you you're waisting your time with meaningless things in my neighborhood. I know it could be smoke and mirrors but I asure you that my engines are very well build compared to my test rig. It looks terrible because it's had so many things attached to it. Today I finally finnished the hydrolic disk brakes! Huray!

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:36 am

Zack, not just an interesting site, but an interesting engine builder. I'm impressed. I'm opening a new folder for your creations only. Out from 'Miscellaneous' and into 'Zack Sartell'. Have fun!

ZSartell
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re: Bruce's new project

Post by ZSartell » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:16 pm

Thanks Bruno. I just realized that some of the pictures on my site were not working, so I fixed them. I had planed on trying to set a land speed record with two valveless pulse jets, but now that Bruce has beet me to it I have decided to go big, really big. 300 lbs + an engine, with at least 2 engines. Now that I have lost my job I am going to have a little more time to work on my pulse jets. But unfortunatly I am going to be tight on cash. I should see if I can find some sponsors to fund the speed record attempt.

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Re: re: Bruces new project

Post by hinote » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:33 pm

Bruno Ogorelec wrote: On the other hand, the idea of establishing a pulsejet-powered land speed record is not at all stupid. A very nice stunt to promote pulsejet power. I wish I'd thought about it myself.

Mike, Bill -- how about giving the man a run for his money? Someone should check with NHRA (or whoever) whether a yardstick has ever been established with an Argus (or more probably Ford) powered car. That would be an obvious reference point.
I have some thoughts about a land speed record for pulsejets:

If Bruce is going to use that dragster frame, he may be in for some surprises. The front-end seems a little too frail for high speeds, IMHO. Also, the lack of any streamlining is going to severely limit higher speeds.

Look at:

http://www.indycycle.net/

--this would be my idea of a suitable vehicle. The wheels-front trike concept (single rear wheel) lends itself well to pulsejet power because the narrow rear track allows mounting of the engines on the sides of the vehicle. The lower thrust line will provide greater stability at speed.

Another potential source of a good vehicle would be an out-of-use formula car chassis, like a Formula Vee or Formula Ford.

Living in California provides access to excellent locations for speed runs, such as El Mirage dry lake. The So. California Timing Association runs several big meets during the year, including the famous Bonneville event.
SCTA would provide a good platform for speed verification--with some additional cost involved.

Bill H.
Acoustic Propulsion Concepts

".......some day soon we'll be flying airplanes powered by pulsejets."

Bruno Ogorelec
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re: Bruce's new project

Post by Bruno Ogorelec » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:57 pm

Bill is spot-on in his assessment. Dragster-type chassis it the last thing you need. By far the best way would be to buy an old engineless lightweight class formula-type racing car. They are built to travel at high speed and will track well. If their class is obsolete, or have been overtaken by more modern models, they tend to be very cheap, especially without the engine, because they are near useless. You would probably do well to replace the original wheels with much narrower ones, or the rolling resistance will be far too high. In any case, I'd get in contact with a Boneville veteran and talk to him. Land speed records are a world apart and it's not a sport in which you can afford making mistakes. So, learn from others whatever you can.

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by Stephen H » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:17 pm

hey zack because bruce bet you to the idea how about you build yours with your 300lbs and the week after he makes his record go and totally smash it!!!

about the indycycle most land speed records need 4 wheels, the first person to break the sound barrier on land only had three and although he was timed by the american air force and like 2 other groups and they all said he broke the sound barrier it was not officially recorded as being the first!

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re: Bruce's new project

Post by ZSartell » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:55 pm

That would be sweet to blow Bruce’s record away just after or even right before. I wonder when Bruce is going for his attempt? It's going to be a while before I even finish the 300lbs + engine design on paper let alone a prototype but I'll keep you posted. As for a land speed record I am going to get a hold of the necessary people and find out the rules and get any advice I can. I'll start with that and go from there. If I can find a way to fund it I'll definitely go for it. --I need some sponsors...

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